[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Karl Feldt.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: I am so excited about the show that we have ahead of us.
[00:00:08] Speaker A: We have some phenomenal information that could save lives.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: You're gonna need to tune in to what's going on today. The information is jam packed, so don't step away.
Doctor Pollack, I am so excited to have you on the. I mean there's nothing that is more important, I think than PMF in this process. So I just want the audience to know the breadth of knowledge and I mean you are like the PEMF guy I would say. So I'll just kind of read you so that they understand everything that you've done. William Pollack, a medical doctor, is a holistic doctor near Baltimore. Previous academic positions at John Hopkins and University of Maryland. So those aren't small institutions.
Your training is in acupuncture, nutrition, herbals, energy medicine, homeopathy, hypnosis, bodywork and multiple other therapies. Consider the foremost authority on the use of pulsed electric and magnetic field therapy. In short, pemph in North America. Interested in holistic pain management, which is medically where they use that. But it has. I mean the amount of usage at pulse electromagnetic field is tremendous. He's interested in new solutions to stubborn, chronic and frustrating health problems. He wants to try to resolve the cause of the problem, not simply put a band aid on it, which the pharmaceutical industry, they're very good at. Band aid and symptom management. Most conventional treatments for pain rely on numbing and dumbing. I like that. That simply make the perception of pain better, but don't heal the cause. On the doctor Oz show, they both agree that pain management should be focused on healing the cause. After 25 years of seeing the risks and side effects of traditional health solutions and approaches, and after studying various healing approaches, he discovered that PMFs provide the most benefit and allow safe, non toxic, self directed, self controlled and home pain management. To this end, doctor Pollock has worked with magnetic field therapies for 30 years and established an authority website, drpolek.com dot. He has authored two comprehensive books on healing with magnetic fields called Power Tools for Health and this year, Supercharger Health with PMF therapy. The Supercharger Health book describes how PMF can be used for over 80 different health conditions, how to select a PMF system to help, and how to use it properly to get the best benefits. This work is supported by over 500 scientific references. So it's not just all anecdotal. I mean this is scientific that this works and is the most authoritative yet readable and unbiased book on the topic available to date to help promote healing with pmfs. He has done well over 50 radio podcasts, magazine and tv interviews combined. He's also been a co host of a two hour holistic health radio show in Baltimore for ten years. Podcast interviews have included Dave Asprey of Bulletproof and Ben Greenfield. Radio interviews included a two hour session on coast to coast. Doctor Pollack, it is such a pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you so much.
[00:03:37] Speaker C: Thank you. It's my pleasure being here and sharing with you as well. I enjoy our repartee, our visits that we've had in the past that were always fun, engaging.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: So one of the things is that when you look about PMF, and we also know EMF, and we try to stay away from this electromagnetic frequencies that we are exposed to all around us, and we know how that negatively impacts our health. So then when you look at then PMF units, obviously it's electricity in ithemenous. So how is that different than the EMF that we have all around us?
[00:04:20] Speaker C: So there are really fundamental differences between them. And this is a major point of confusion for people.
We talk about open loop and closed loop.
So when you do, let's say Wi Fi or you do microwaves, which is where the biggest source that we're most concerned about, they're broadcast into the environment, just like radio waves and television waves and radar. So microwaves are broadcast into the environment. They're around us all the time. It's very, very difficult to avoid them. Even on the tops of mountains, you'll see it. So what happens is that because they're broadcast in the environment, they actually have a waveform, right? So we talk about frequencies with those. So emfs and the kind that we're most concerned about are very short wavelengths. And those wavelengths are so short, they're gigahertz and high megahertz signals. They're so short they get absorbed by the body. So when you stand in the way of a microwave signal coming down a valley, for example, then you're going to be absorbing that signal to some extent. That's the principle behind a microwave oven.
And when you absorb a microwave signal, what you're doing is you're heating, you're heating tissue.
And that's the danger. That's where the danger comes in. Now, if you have a router next to the office, if you have a smart meter, they're all broadcasting in the environment. So they're what we call again, open loop, they don't come back to the source.
A PEMF signal, pulsed electromagnetic field signal, is delivered in a coil, in a coil conducting current. So my thumb, for example, is the coil.
There's the electric current flowing down that thumb, and then opposite to that is a magnetic field. So the magnetic field is perpendicular to the flow of the current, and as the current flows through, it pulses.
And it's pulsed on purpose at different rates, pulse rates, we call them. Some people use the word hertz, which we don't really like to use. We prefer pulse. So what happens is the magnetic field goes out and collapses out and collapse. It never leaves the source.
It goes out, but it doesn't leave the source. It's tethered to the, to the current. So that's called a closed loop. That's extraordinarily safe because it's not going out into the environment and you're not talking typically about microwaves. So there's a huge difference then between pemfs and EmFs. The EMFs we're concerned about are the PEMFs that are designed for therapeutic purposes.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: So the microcurrent then, I mean, you talk about it, it's heating the tissue, and obviously the stronger it is, the more heat it will have, I would assume. And also the faster it vibrates, the more heat it will generate. I mean, the faster the frequency.
So what kind of. Because that is in addition to the heat, there are other damaging effects on the tissue as well. Right. It can impact your genetics, it can impact your mitochondria, it can impact. There's so many damaging effects of that aspect.
[00:07:36] Speaker C: Well, they are. And the problem is we can't. It's hard to separate out the heat component from any other disruptive component of the waves that are introduced into the body. So the heating component is probably one of the most important. When you hold a cell phone to your ear, I see this regularly, hold the cell phone to the ear, the cell phone. The ear becomes red.
You pull the cell phone away and you can see the redness of the ear, and it can take an hour or 2 hours for the ear to dissipate that redness, to go away. Now the opposite ear will also turn red, not because the microwaves are going through the head, because they don't, they're absorbed very shallow weight. So the other ear heats up too, by reflex responses. So if I heat my hand by putting my hand over a hot stove, it'll turn red in response to the heat. My other hand will turn red too.
Not to the same extent as a hand directly to the heat, because the heat then causes all kinds of biochemical changes in the hand, including the circulation, which then goes through the rest of the body and affects the rest of the tissues. But most of that effect, as you said, is local. And it's the heat, it's genetics. It disrupts genetic bonds, it disrupts molecular bonds, it agitates molecules, it gets them activated and moving rapidly. But I think a big part of the effect is the heating.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it was interesting just the other day, had a new patient, you know, just through telemedicine, and he's working with a cell phone day in and day out. And lo and behold, now he has a neuroma around his auditory nerve. So on the side that is using the cell phone. Exactly. He's sitting like this with a cell phone, typing in orders that he was doing. And so now he has an aroma. So his options are surgery, which would then remove the tumor, but he won't be able to hear again. Or radiation, same thing. It would control the tumor but he won't be able to hear again. And so it's just kind of seeing the damaging effect, the impact that it has in your DNA, those microwave frequencies. But then looking then at the PMF, is that something that can correct that or. I, I mean, how is that beneficial? How. I mean, you said that it doesn't leave the source, but it still has some electrical current to it. And does that not have a negative effect on the body?
[00:10:12] Speaker C: So the answer is that pemfs have been found to be extraordinarily safe. Extraordinarily safe. We now use something called rtms. It's very common. So post magnetic fields have been approved by the FDA for a number of uses. One of the more recent approvals has been for devices called rtms, repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation for treating treatment resistant depression.
Right. These are high powered magnetic fields, 8000 gauss, 6000 gauss applied to the, to the brain.
And so what happens is that what they actually do is they put the coil right over the motor cortex, the part of the motor cortex that controls the thumb or the hand on the other side. They crank up the magnetic field intensity until you get a depolarization within the brain to produce currents in the brain that then stimulate the motor cortex. And then the hand starts to move.
That's called the motor threshold. Then what they'll do is they'll take the coil and put the coil over the front of the forehead at 20% to 50% above the motor threshold to treat depression.
This was originally developed as a replacement for ECT, electroconvulsive therapy. So it's considered very safe. Literally hundreds of millions of people have been now treated using these high intensity magnetic fields, with almost no consequences. In fact, in my book, power tools for health, I talk about the safety of pmfs, including the safety of high intensity magnetic fields to the brain. So they are extraordinarily safe.
One of the reasons they are is because the wavelengths are too long. They're not really wavelengths, right? It's a pulse, it's not a wavelength. And so the wavelengths are the ones that cause the damage, especially the very short wavelengths. So the pulse is a whole different ballgame when it comes to what it does in the body.
[00:12:04] Speaker D: Hello dear listeners, this is Doctor Michael Karlfeld, your host of integrative Lyme Solutions. Today, I'm excited to share an exclusive opportunity from the Karlfeld center, where we blend healing power of nature with groundbreaking therapies to combat Lyme disease and its associated challenges. At the Karlfold center, we're not just fighting Lyme, we're revolutionizing the way it's treated with cutting edge therapies like photodynamic therapy, full body ozone iv therapy, silver iv's, brain rebalancing, autonomic response testing, laser energetic detoxification, and more. We aim to eradicate Lyme. Our approach is comprehensive, supporting your body's immune system, detoxification processes, hormonal balance and mitochondrial health, ensuring a holistic path to recovery. Understanding Lyme disease and its impact is complex, which is why we're offering a free 15 minutes discovery call with one of our Lyme literate naturopathic doctors. This call is your first step towards understanding how we can personalize your healing journey, focusing on you as a whole person, not just your symptoms. Our team, led by myself, doctor Michael Karlfilz, is here to guide you through your recovery with the most advanced diagnostic tools, individualized treatment plans, and supportive therapies designed to restore your health and vitality. Whether you're facing Lyme disease head on or seeking preventative strategies, we're committed to your wellness. Take the first step towards reclaiming your health. Visit
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[00:14:06] Speaker B: So if you lay on the mats and all these different devices, because that is obviously common concern. I just want to make people understand that there's no EMF danger because of there's this pulse that's taking place, and the wavelengths are much longer, so you don't have that heating element, and you're just activating cellular functions within the body.
[00:14:36] Speaker C: When I was the vice president for medical affairs, or for the vice president, basically medical affairs for the North American Academy of Magnetic Field Therapy, which is long gone. But we used to have meetings every year, and we would have discussions with physicists and engineers and doctors and physiologists about emfs and pemfs and what they. The differences in terms of what they do. Again, the consensus, clearly, the consensus is that pemfs are safe.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: I love it. So what does EMF do in the body? I mean, what. I'm not EMF. What does Pemf do in the body? What are some of the regenerative aspects that Pemp do in the body?
Because it's something that we should use on a daily basis, and it's really beneficial for anti aging, for regeneration of any kind of tissue.
[00:15:34] Speaker C: Absolutely. So the principle behind the way pemfs work in the body is that you have a pulse. So it's a magnetic pulse, and that magnetic pulse goes up very rapidly, and as it's going up from zero to the maximum intensity, it actually creates charge in the body. That's Faraday's law. It's the induction of current in the body. So we actually induce currents. We induce charge, increase charge in the body with that. Every single pulse does that.
Now, then what happens? What does that pulse do by increasing charge in the body? There's probably, like 25 different actions, at least in the body, of that pulse. So the body then reacts to that pulse, increases charge, and as a result of that charge, you get increases in circulation, you get DNA repair, you get tissue repair, you get increased circulation, decreased inflammation, the increased nitric oxide production, immune modulation, immune benefits, reduction in inflammation. As I mentioned, the list is like, there's 25 different actions. One of the things we've discovered more recently with pemfs is they actually have an endocannabinoid benefit.
That's like taking marijuana or cannabis or CBD. Pemfs have that action. So there are receptors in the body that take that CBD or cannabis and basically start producing metabolic changes as a result of that receptor being stimulated by the cannabis. Well, pmfs actually directly stimulate the cannabis receptor.
So you don't have tolerance issues, you don't have the drug issues, you don't have metabolism issues that you have to deal with. It's direct stimulation of the cannabinoid receptors, primarily in the nervous system, but anywhere in the body. But the only thing that's been studied so far has been the nervous system.
[00:17:30] Speaker B: And so looking at aging, for instance, I mean, you just mentioned all the different things that would prevent rapid aging and will slow that down. I mean, talking about circulation, immune modulation and inflammatory, and then obviously energy production within the cells, I mean, all of those things are huge. When you want to reduce aging and be vital, when you deal with aches and pains all over the place, your brain is not functioning the way that it used to or your energy is not at the same optimal level. So including PMF, that would kind of maximize your anti aging potential totally, in.
[00:18:20] Speaker C: Fact, actually, if you don't mind.
So here's a slide that I want to show you about some of the effects of pemfs, basically, and what they do. One of the most important benefits of PEMF, especially in terms of regenerative medicine, is the ability of a PEMF to reverse cell injury. So this comes from the cell injury model, which is in the standard textbooks of the cell and cell injury and so on. So anything that damages a cell, whether it's radiation or heat or cold or trauma, cutting it, burning it, anything that damages a cell causes a certain sequence of changes in the cell that are damaged. And we'll go into that in a second. So at one stage, you have what's called reversible cell injury.
If the cell is not damaged to a point of death, then basically the changes can be reversed. And as the cell becomes more and more damaged, the cell function decreases until it gets to a point where it becomes irreversible.
Now, you and I, as doctors, we know that as the injury progresses, you get to a point where you can actually see the damage, you can see the burn, you can see the cut, etcetera. But with a lot of conditions that we deal with, particularly immune conditions, you don't see the damage. Generally speaking, people have symptoms, they have changes physiologically, they have biochemical reactions.
Then if you start looking at that tissue that's having those biochemical reactions, let's say the liver, and you do biopsies of the liver, then you can see at an early phase what's called ultra structural changes, ultra structural microscopes. Eventually, you and I, as clinicians, we started using, well, we'd look at a wound, then we would do a biopsy and we'd look at that biopsy or a urine sample under a microscope, a light microscope. So then as this progresses, as the duration of injury progresses and the amount of damage progresses, it becomes more and more and more obvious. So it's not just biochemical anymore, it's actually physical.
So that's the process. Then what happens is, in terms of the cell, normal cells can die based on two mechanisms, necrosis or apoptosis. So necrosis happens when there's damage, usually external damage, but it could be internal damage too, where you have an infection that you have swelling of the cells and membrane, blobs, etcetera. And then as that progresses, then you get necrosis. The cell dies and breaks apart, and then the body sends in macrophages and white blood cells to mop up the damage.
With a normal cell, that gets old senility. It's outlived its usefulness. It goes through an involution process where also fragments, and then you have apoptotic bodies and then phagocytes, or white blood cells, basically eat up the fragments. That's a natural process of aging and cell death, part of the cell injury process.
Now, cell injury then causes certain changes in the body.
A decreased ATP in the cells, mitochondrial damage, the changes in the flux of calcium in and out of cells, which causes buildup of energy on the outside of the cell. So the cells now compromised and can't function properly.
Reactive oxygen species have caused damage, oxidative stress damage. All of this also ends up with membrane damage, which then goes can be result in lysosomal membrane damage. Lysosomes are basically eat up cells, or they break down the cells and then they eat them up and protein is falling. So these are all the consequences of cell damage and cell injury.
Turns out pemfs affect each one of these actions.
They don't do it all at once, necessarily. The body will decide how it wants to deal with that cell injury and that damage.
So then what happens is that all of this ends up with cell damage. I want to show an example of a child where we use the magnetic field therapy to heal injury. This child cut off the end of her thumb.
Three year old in a door jam, just cut it right off. And the father called me before the surgeons had at it. And what the surgeons would have done, they would have cleaned it up and grafted skin to cover the wound. That's a standard approach to that kind of injury.
So that child would have had an abnormal thumb for the rest of her life. That thumb would have stopped growing naturally the way it would normally have done. So we convinced the father to have the surgeon sew the piece that was torn off back on. You can see the suture marks, purple. As you can imagine, that tissue has no vascular supply whatsoever.
Essentially dead. So that child did a local PMF therapy device to the thumb an hour to an hour and a half a day.
So this is when it started, sort of PMF therapy there. Did PMF therapy for three weeks on August 6, started on the 12th. Now look at that. It's reattached, it's regrowing, regenerating into the area of the damage. So now you have a scab, you have dead tissue. So the dead tissue has to fall off at six weeks. Look at that. Almost totally pink.
And here's a little bit tuft of scab left of that dead tissue that the body's gonna get rid of.
Now this is about twelve weeks. So from September the 12th, July 12 to October 2, almost twelve weeks.
Look at that. She's regrowing her nail.
[00:24:07] Speaker B: That's incredible.
And it's just, I mean. Cause it's a very visual, I mean, you can really see how dead tissue, how it becomes alive and how the programming of the body, because the programming is a healthy thumb. And so we're seeing it on the thumb, but we know exactly this happens in the brain, in the liver, in the kidney, in the joint. It's the same kind of process, right?
[00:24:35] Speaker C: Whatever tissue, whatever regenerative capacity that tissue has.
So that, so. And every tissue of the body has different regenerative capacity.
Right? In an eleven year, in a three year old. Now in an adult, the rule of thumb is that Doctor Becker discovered this a long time ago. Bob Beck Becker, is that up to about age eleven, you can regrow that thumb from the first joint out.
You can't. It's hard to regrow before that. Musculoskeletal regeneration. But a three year old has an amazing capacity because of the amount of stem cells they have in their bodies and the amount of general energy they typically have in their tissues. They have the capacity to regenerate. Salamanders do that because they have a genetic sort of history that they've retained to be able to regenerate whole limbs, in fact.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: And those are the studies he was doing, is either cutting off the tail and then using electrical stimulation, and then that would then regrow the tail, so. Exactly. Yeah. It just shows if the body has that capacity by the proper stimulation, which is what PEMF will then supply, you can then regenerate.
[00:25:49] Speaker C: And pemfs increase voltage in the tissues. I said increased charge. And it's the charge induction, the increased charge in the tissue that provides a stimulus to do all of this. Let me show you something else. Here's a slide in terms of the different tissues of the body and how they regenerate. Liver cells are replaced every three to 500 days. Intercostal, the muscle cells between the ribs regenerate every 15 years. The wisdom tooth stops growing, basically at twelve years of age.
Internal intestinal cells replaced every 16 years.
Skin cells are replaced every 39 days. The whole skeleton basically is replaced about every ten years.
Hippocampal brain neurons, hippocampus neurons are replaced every 20 to 30 years.
So the body cells of the body, most of the cells of the body have a capacity for regeneration at some level, but all the tissues are different. So you can't expect the skin wound is going to heal a lot faster than a brain wound because of the regenerative cycles of the tissues themselves. Heart muscle cells stop growing at age ten years of age. Red cells replaced every 120 days, fat storage cells are replaced every ten years, and so on. We rely on the body's natural capacity to be able to regenerate. But what happens is that these are natural processes. This is what happens in a normal body without stimulation, without stimulation, and without growth factors.
Right now, the time of regeneration is important. So this slide is really important from the perspective of how much stimulation do you need? You can't just do five minutes. Some people are selling PMF systems. All you need is eight minutes a day.
This is research done on non union fractures. Talk about regeneration. So these are fractures that after six months have not healed.
Okay, we call them non unions, and they're a disaster, because if you don't do something, it's never going to heal.
Typically, they remain non unions, and then you have a non functional extremity. And they most commonly happen in the upper extremities, in the hands, in the tibia and fibula. Those are the major areas where these happen. So what they did is they FDA approved a device that's about 18 gauss. So 18 is a very low intensity magnetic field, and they wear a magnetic applicator over the area of the fracture.
They're supposed to treat for 9 hours a day, nine or more hours a day. That's what they're supposed to treat for 9 hours a day.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: Just shows, I mean, because that the cell is always functioning. I mean, it has. How many chemical reactions does it have? Per second. It's like 2000 different chemicals, 2000, 5000.
[00:28:51] Speaker C: Depending on what you're counting and how you're counting.
[00:28:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's every second. So it's not like the cell just, you know, I'm going to take the day off, you know, it's working all the time. So that's why, you know, that continual supply of PMF, it was just, it increases the activity and the function of the cell in what it does every second.
[00:29:14] Speaker C: And it increases stem cells. Part of regeneration is that you have to replace dead cells, you have to replace damaged cells. And that's the function of stem cells is to replace the damaged tissues.
In this case, the people who did 9 hours a day healed their fractures 76 days earlier, more than two months, almost three months earlier. The people who only did 3 hours or less a day took 188 days to heal their fractures.
So if you don't do what you need to do, you're just not going to heal fast enough. So we have this, a bit of a magical thinking process going on. Well just give me the stem cells and I don't have to do anything else. Right. And you're relying on the body then to take those stem cells and do something with them and heal them. But I tell people you can't grow a garden in a swamp.
So the effects of pmfs on stem cells is to increase proliferation, they increase viability, they increase cardiac markers, neurogenic markers, bone markers, cartilage markers. So they stimulate stem cells basically throughout the whole body.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: So here we are looking at some of the main, I mean, main things that people are plagued by. I mean obviously heart disease is like the number one killer. So exposing yourself then to continual PMF treatment will then impact then all your cardiac markers and also regenerate the heart muscle and faster you get neuroregenerative. So now we're looking at all the MS, we got dementia, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, osteogenic, I mean who does, you know, who out there, especially all the females, they're all nervous about osteoporosis, osteopenia and chronogenic arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis. So, so it hits like all the spots that relates to aging. Just using the PMF, just using PM's.
[00:31:17] Speaker C: So to go back to the point you were making about the fact that we have 2000 to 5000 biochemical processes per second, how much treatment time do you need?
And I say I don't know, your body's going to tell you, right? So if you apply it long enough, fortunately with the with pemfs most of the time you can't do harm.
And where you do harm is a, you do it too, too much, too fast. You're not allowing the body's capacity to catch up to the stimulation and or b, you got equipment in your body that's at risk with the magnetic field stimulation. So beyond that it's almost impossible to do damage in the body. Pemfs, I've discovered, don't cause problems, they reveal problems.
So what you're trying to do with PEF therapy when you're talking about 5000 biochemical processes per second, you're working here. This is the area of the body, the cell that you're trying to work at, you're trying to improve cell function to maintain it way up here at the top of the curve as much as you possibly can.
So the cells live longer and they live healthier and then the body gets rid of the cells that need to be cleaned out because we can't choke up the tissues with cells that are not functioning properly. I think we can stop sharing here. So let me stop sharing and you can have your control back.
[00:32:45] Speaker B: You're so sweet. You gave it back to me.
[00:32:48] Speaker C: Well I stopped sharing.
I assume you could take it back.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: I assume so, sir.
Well, so then we have, and when you look at kind of that cell damage theory in regards to aging, we have this term called inflammaging and senescent cells and cells that are, and then we're talking about apoptosis, you know, cells that are not being cleaned out. I mean we know in a home, you know, if you want to have a nice home, you know, free from infections and all these kinds of things, we continually need to clean out old junk and then we need to support, yeah, support the health, so to say, of the house.
So it's the same in the body. We continually need to clean out old in order to be able to replace it with the new. If we don't get rid of the old, we can't put new things in. And so now we have tissue, whether it's joints, whether it's kidney tissue, whether it's brain tissue, whatever it may be that then have, let's say 30% of old cells that are just kind of hanging out that hasn't been broken down, cleaned out. So obviously that is going to impede the function and also impede the integrity of that tissue.
[00:34:06] Speaker C: Yeah. And age related memory loss, even to some extent Alzheimer's. So the Alzheimer's process leads to beta protein being deposited before it gets to neurofibrillary tangles before it gets to plaque. So if you can clean house, constantly be cleaning house, they don't build up.
[00:34:24] Speaker B: Yeah. And then if it goes all the way to complete dysfunction, then we look at cells becoming cancerous as a survival mechanism, and now they are then secreting chemicals that are protecting their own existence. And from what I know, a PMF is even beneficial in that, in controlling all those kind of cytokines and chemicals that cancer secretes for their own survival.
[00:34:51] Speaker C: Correct? Correct. And so they bring in new cells, bring in healthy cells, they help the immune system to clean things up. They also help the immune system to isolate the cancer. So what happens is magnetic field therapy doesn't necessarily kill the cancer, although that's a possibility. We don't have really great proof that that that's true. But you can isolate it, and if you can isolate it, you can live with it depending on where it is. Right. How big it is and how bad it is.
[00:35:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And at the core of all the kind of anti aging and energy, you're looking at the mitochondria, and there you have the electron transport, transport chain, and that we depend then on the flow of electrons.
Obviously, if we then support using PEMF, we can then support that flow, which will increase the energy within the cell so that the cell can repair better. We also know that the mitochondria holds a lot of the cell death switch. To see this cell is too old, let's flip the switch, let's kill it off, or this cell is salvageable, and then it would have the energy to be able to regenerate and repair. And so PMF can, can support that as well.
[00:36:08] Speaker C: Well, you know, one of the questions that would be asked by what you're just saying is that can magnetic field therapy actually increase cancer production in the body? And the research is showing that pemfs do not initiate cancer processes.
The only thing that a PEMF might be able to do to a cancer is by increasing blood supply, usually temporarily, because they start moving circulation anywhere in the body.
The cancer cells need significant amounts of blood supply. But what happens is that blood supply actually floods the cancer cells with reactive oxygen species. So in its own way, it's stunning the cancer, even though you're increasing circulation, but temporarily, cancers can grow slightly because of the increased vascular supply. But then as you keep doing the stimulation, then it begins to involute.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: I know the mitochondria, since it is dysfunctional in the cancer, it only operates within a very narrow band. So if you push then the mitochondria and activate. So it works harder. Then it starts to leak out a lot of reactive oxygen species into the cell to cause then cell deaths, to kind of trigger the death of that cancer cell. So yeah, at the end of the day, it helps to support the body, clear out cancer cells.
[00:37:26] Speaker C: Well, since magnetic fields have so many different actions, what happens is I tell people I can't decide what those actions are going to be.
[00:37:33] Speaker B: No.
[00:37:34] Speaker C: You know, I can't decide whether it's going to be circulation. I can't decide whether it's oxidative, increasing oxygen species or inflammation reduction or ATP production. The body decides, I give the body a stimulus, all I'm doing is giving the body a neutral stimulus, and then the body takes from it and does with it what it wants.
[00:37:55] Speaker B: And to the point where you're talking about low and slow, I mean, so what we're doing with PMF is that we're turning on a lot of processes within the body. We give the body energy, it gets energy and they start to clean out closets and bring it all these toxins and heavy metals and things start to try to move these things. And if you give the body too much energy, all of a sudden you flood it with a lot of processes that the body kicks in. Maybe too much chemicals, maybe immune system is becoming too active, going after Lyme disease or whatever it may be. So that's why it's good to gradually increase and see how the body's responding, right?
[00:38:39] Speaker C: I usually use the analogy of athletic training.
You don't get off the couch and run a marathon tomorrow, you have to train. So what we're doing with the body is we're pushing the body, we're essentially training the body how it should act with more energy.
So I've been energy deficient for so long, I don't know what to do. I'm functioning at the level of low energy.
So now I've got more energy, what do I do with this energy?
And then the cells decide over time and we retrain those cells because now they have more energy, they could do a lot more and then optimize their function.
[00:39:18] Speaker B: And expand a little bit on, you use the term, you can't grow a garden in a swamp. I mean, I know with PMF you're bringing in energy, but I would assume also you need to support a lot of the kind of the liver, the kidneys, I mean, all the detox processes. I would assume also you would need to bring in electrolytes because you need to have something to act on the. With the PMF.
And so can you expand a little bit more on that?
[00:39:51] Speaker C: Well, let's use the analogy of a swamp.
[00:39:53] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:39:54] Speaker C: You're going to clear the swamp and you're going to try to grow corn.
So what do you have to do? You have to drain the swamp, right. But now, then you're going to have to plant, but you're going to get rid of the weeds.
You're going to have to do a lot of other. Take a lot of other steps profiling. You can start growing a crop in that swamp, in that what used to be a swamp. Well, in the body the swamp is edema, inflammation. All those are the elements of a swamp. Lack of blood supply. So in other words, lack of circulation loss, lack of flowing water. It's stagnant water.
And it's growing bacteria, it's growing viruses and fungi and molds and so on. So once you start to clear the swamp, once you start to get the tissues more normal, now stem cells can go in and do their job. Because if I put stem cells into a swamp, I put stem cells into an area of inflammation. One of the functions that stem cells can have is to clear inflammation. But then they've done their job.
They're not there then to do what you really want them to do, which is to heal the tissue.
So once you start removing the swamp, then you start growing. So magnetic field therapy then increases the different proliferation, first of the stem cells. So they now grow and then they differentiate better. But if you differentiate it, say, bone cells, you said, or like we talked about, the non union fractures. So you increase bone cells, but you don't have enough calcium.
You don't have enough magnesium or boron. You don't have all the elements that you need to make new bone. So then what pmfs do then is not only increase the stem cells, but then they bring in the nutrients to make new bone. So that bone then becomes hardier and survives, and it will live longer. We've seen this with PEMF therapy with stem cells for the heart, cardiogenic stem cells.
Their survival rates are terrible.
If we were doing PeME therapy to the heart before we tried to do stem cells for the heart, the hearts already were clearly the swamp. The heart's already better. The terrain is already better for those stem cells to come in and do their job, and then they survive as cardiac cells, which are supposed to survive and they're supposed to do their work. They work hard. Cardiomyocytes work hard.
And they need to be able to survive. So they need more energy, they need to be able to have a proper environment to work within.
That's the spectrum of what pmfs could do with that.
[00:42:18] Speaker B: So you mentioned edema, and you have this kind of, this swamp environment in the tissue. Obviously to drain the swamp, you need circulation, you need things to move. And PMF will help with that movement, with the circulation.
Also it will help to reduce the inflammation in that area. Because when you have inflammation, you have edema. Yeah, you have the edema, you have immune system cells are secreting cytokines that create that area, swallow, make that area swollen. So the pemp will help control that. Then you then can then support then the detox pathways using your eliminator, your bowel, your kidney, skin, lung, liver, supporting your ability to eliminate that as you're also increasing the flow and then supporting them nutritionally. So you have all the components that you need in order to be able to regenerate. And then bringing in then the uh, the PMF to really kind of support that, that whole, whole process. I mean, that, that seems to be kind of like a winning, winning formula. Then if you want to add things like peptides and stem cells and you know, all of these things, but you, it becomes a very expensive therapy if you don't create the right environment for them.
[00:43:44] Speaker C: Well. And if you do stem cells without doing all the things that you just talked about, like again with bone cells, if you don't give the new supply, the nutrients for the bone cells, to the minerals for the bone cells to be able to mineralize, if you will, then you're not going to have adequate bone, you're going to have soft bone. And then you're not a whole lot better off than you were before.
So, magnetic field therapy opens cell membranes.
The membrane channels begin to open. And when they begin to open, they allow a better absorption of nutrients into the cell to do the work of the cell. But you also get rid of waste better. So it's like opening the windows and doors in a house, a stale house, right? Open the windows and doors, air gets in and stale stuff gets out.
[00:44:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like nightingale, you know? Remember the nurse, you know, how she opened the windows in order to be able to bring health into the hospitals?
[00:44:40] Speaker C: Better air, oxygen.
[00:44:42] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
So can you go through a little bit more kind of, in regards to the stem cells? Because stem cells and peptides, I mean, we use these as growth factors all the different ways that.
And we have stem cells ourselves and we have like the mesenchymal stem cells, they tend to kind of line the blood vessels, and they just kind of hang out there and wait for any kind of injury or any area that needs support, and then they will then go to that area to help to regenerate. So what are all the ways that PMF activates and what do they do to these stem cells?
[00:45:28] Speaker C: Okay, so let's back up a little bit. There was a study done by NASA on neural stem cells.
So they're using a magnetic field that was about ten, around 10, about, maybe around 100 gauss. So fairly significant using culture plates. So this is not human, this is in culture plates. But they found almost a 400% increase in the growth of neural progenitor cells. 400%. But they also. What they also did, and I was amazed at this, they also looked at those stem cells and the growth factors they were producing.
They were producing around 400 growth factors.
Not only were the stem cells growing, but they were actually producing all these growth factors. So you have the combination of those two things going on at the same time. You can grow all the stem cells you want, but if you don't have the growth factors to support them. And in regenerative medicine, we supply growth factors as well to help the regeneration process work better, or PNF, stimulate tons of growth factors at the same time as they're stimulating the stem cells. So again, the first thing you're doing is you're stimulating the body's capacity to make new stem cells, like for bone marrow. We. I had a case, a situation where a woman was going to go and have a bone marrow stem cell harvest, and she had had a couple of harvests before and had maybe 200,000 bone marrow stem cells harvested. She started doing magnetic field therapy, whole body magnetic field therapy. 2 million stem cells harvested.
So not with a whole lot of magnetic field therapy. All of a sudden, the bone marrow kicks in and starts to produce all these stem cells. So the same thing happens in the skin, the same thing can happen in the brain, although the brain tends to do it a lot more slowly than other parts of the body.
So we're not only stimulating them from being produced by wherever, wherever tissue is being stimulated, and that's the value of the benefit of whole body stimulation, because then you're activating stem cells through the whole body, not just one organ.
So you increase the production, you increase the growth factors, and then you help to support the differentiation. So you're not only growing them, but they're also turning into the tissue that you want. So if you're trying to do bone, then you stimulate the bone. If you're trying to do liver, then you stimulate the liver. And those liver stem cells are going to differentiate better the heart, the same thing. So you can target the therapy to the area where you want the stem cells to be regenerating and growing and becoming normal tissue.
[00:48:07] Speaker B: And what's fascinating with stem cells, I mean, you talk about the growth factors. So you have the stem cells and we think of them as just they build, become whatever tissue that's needed to be regenerated and then start to repair that tissue by becoming that cell.
But also, it's also, like you mentioned, the growth factors. I mean, they secrete that. It's like a pharmacist in itself, that the stem cells are. And they go to the location, they check the location. See, I see that these growth factors are needed, these chemicals are needed, and then they just create this magic soup that is needed. Exactly. For that tissue.
Whatever a person can do then to maximize the activity of these stem cells. Obviously, if you look for anti aging, if you're dealing with any kind of health complaints, if you maybe you got a fatty liver or your GFR, your kidney function are starting to creep down towards 60 or maybe even below.
All these things are become then crucial. And as you said, you have that window of opportunity that you can then support the organs while the cells are damaged, but they're not dead.
You want to get to it as quickly as possible before you have the cells being dead.
[00:49:40] Speaker C: Irreversible injury.
[00:49:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So looking at aging, I mean, how. How do you describe aging? I mean, what. What are the processes? I mean, we talked about inflammation. We talked about.
Yeah. How. What is the definition of aging in your mind?
[00:50:03] Speaker C: I went to a conference at Cambridge. I was invited to go to this conference and we did a poster presentation about aging. Because the conference was strategically something anti aging, basically, right? Senescence.
And I said, well, all these people there were studying rats and mixing older rats with younger rats and having the older rats function better because they were now in a colony with younger rats. So I said, all of that's good. And stimulating the genetics. All of that's good. So what is aging for most humans? I call that death by a thousand cuts.
As a physician, it's all the stressors that you have in your lifespan, right? It causes the changes in your body's ability to repair and recover. Right? So if we could, we would stay 25 years old for the rest of our lives.
That's our optimal. We stopped growing at around 25 right. 24, 25. And then you want to basically be level for the rest of your life, live a good life, and then fall off the edge of the cliff.
[00:51:13] Speaker B: I would love that. That'd be awesome.
[00:51:14] Speaker C: All at once.
[00:51:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:51:16] Speaker C: Right. So what happens, though, is that that's not what happens. Aging happens. Senescence happens. Poor diets happen, stressors happen.
[00:51:24] Speaker B: Until senescence. I mean, I know we use the term, but there may be people that have no idea what senescent means.
[00:51:31] Speaker C: It's aging, in essence, means the cell. The cell gets old. So it's like a house. You mentioned this before. You got a house, you built it. It's brand new. All. Everything's new. So it's outgassing all the stuff from the carpets, it's got new paint on the walls. And it takes. This is called entropy. Right. It takes energy to maintain the house as you made it.
Right. And as the furniture ages, gets older, the fibers begin to break down due to entropy. And entropy is the amount of energy that you have to have in a system to maintain that system in the structure in which it is.
Human body is no different than a house in that sense, or a car. It needs energy to be able to sustain itself at the level in which it was originally designed.
And so what happens as you get older? Entropy happens. You get decreased energy supply. The cells don't recover and repair as fast.
You don't have as much ATP, mitochondrial. The number of mitochondria decrease. So you have all these factors that happen as you get older anyway because of entropy. Now, can we ever keep up with our anthropic needs?
[00:52:51] Speaker B: That's a good question. We would like to. We would like to stay at 25. Right.
[00:52:55] Speaker C: Well, and we do lots of things to be able to do that. But still, no matter what, we haven't covered the waterfront.
[00:53:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So. But you haven't. And people live longer now. I mean, we have all these medical treatments and people live longer, but they are not necessarily living healthier. They're not living a good life. The quality of life is actually. It gets worse faster, but we live longer in a bad state. So it's almost like pharmaceutically, they have a bigger window to sell medication to people.
[00:53:36] Speaker C: Yes, that's true. I tell people it's about getting off the edge of the cliff.
[00:53:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:53:41] Speaker C: Right. So what we do medically, if I have heart disease or I have an occlusion of a vessel and I get a stent or a bypass, then what have I done? I've gotten myself off the cliff, or at least I've gotten myself off the edge of the cliff. I haven't gotten off the cliff, just over the. Just the edge of the cliff. And the research is showing that people who have bypasses and stents have, these cardiac procedures have bought time, but they haven't bought a decrease in aging because they haven't changed the factors that led them there in the first place. So if you don't change those factors and then not only do you have to change the factors so you don't keep going down that slope that you were on, you want to get that slope higher up, but you're not going to reverse the damage that you already caused. If you're already bone on bone, then all you have to do is find a way to live with it.
[00:54:34] Speaker B: But if you can get at that earlier, like we're talking about, where we can then stimulate the regeneration of the cartilage between the joints, even though you may not have arthritis, but then continually support the body, then obviously you're going to be away from that cliff, you're going to have a larger buffer zone.
Because a lot of these diseases we look upon health, medically, they look upon it as absence of disease, where we don't have symptoms. But in reality, health is optimum living and that should be far away from diabetes or heart disease or arthritis or dementia or all these different things that that relates that we look upon as these are symptoms of aging, I totally agree with you.
[00:55:33] Speaker C: If we don't get ahead of the curve early, with proper nutrition, with supplementation, well, and with PMF therapy. But when should a person start doing PMF therapy?
[00:55:45] Speaker B: When they're born.
[00:55:47] Speaker C: I disagree with you.
[00:55:49] Speaker B: Before they're born.
[00:55:50] Speaker C: I disagree with that too. I will agree with it, but not completely. Children don't normally need help, although today, these days I'm not so sure about that. I would have said that 30 years ago you probably don't need to help a fetus. Or 30 years ago you probably didn't really have to help a baby, unless a baby had health problems because their bodies are naturally trying to grow and keep up and repair whatever has to be repaired. But certainly around age 25, that's when we start aging for the average person.
[00:56:25] Speaker B: See, to me, because we live in such a different environment now than we did 50 years ago, 100 years ago, where we are dealing with so many stressors that interfere with normal cellular function. So even the baby, they're bathed with all these artificial EMF, they have cell towers outside, they have all these different things that are continually disrupting and over.
[00:56:50] Speaker C: 200 toxins are in their bodies when they're born.
[00:56:53] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So from my point of view, and people may disagree out there, I feel we need tools in order to be able to rebalance the electromagnetic charge and DNA function. And the pulses that takes place, the ionization, the transport of calcium through the ion channels, the calcium channels, the sodium, potassium pumps, that happens along the cell wall membrane. All of these things are impacted by all the artificial EMF and cell towers to have a tool around you that you rebalance the system.
To me, that should be done like ASAP.
[00:57:39] Speaker C: And you have to have the right magnetic equipment.
[00:57:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:57:42] Speaker C: Here's the problem that people run into.
Most people make the purchasing decisions based on price or a salesperson.
So we know a lot of people will pay $6,000 for a one Gauss machine.
We now know that the adenosine receptor is one of the ways that we deal with inflammation of the body. And it's the adenosine receptor on the neutrophil. And research is showing that the optimal magnetic field intensity at the adenosine receptor is 15 gauss.
[00:58:15] Speaker B: 15 gauss one five.
[00:58:17] Speaker C: Yeah, optimal, but that's at the receptor. So if you're dealing with 15 gauss, if you have to deliver 15 gauss deep into the brain or into a heart or into a liver, then what do you have to do? You have to calculate the dose you need at the tissue that you're targeting.
So for example, across the brain is about six inches. So we treat it across the brain. You need about a 4000 gauss magnetic field to deliver 15 gauss at the other side of the brain because magnetic fields, like radiation, drop off very rapidly with distance. And again, you have to do that calculation. So buying a PMF system just based on dollars or just based on influence from a salesperson or just based on. Well, I only want to treat my elbow. You can go ahead and just treat your elbow. But if you're 65 or 70, you probably should be treating the rest of you too.
We make these purchasing decisions not based on the bigger picture that you and I are talking about.
[00:59:19] Speaker B: So what are some, I mean, obviously they should go to drpolik.com and find the appropriate things, but so people understand why the products that you offer are so good. What are some of the factors that an individual should take into account when they are looking at a PMF unit?
[00:59:45] Speaker C: One of the best ways to find out what you should get is in my new book, Supercharger Health. Because I've got tables in there about different conditions and the different physiologic functions and which devices are going to do the best job for that. And there's 80 health conditions, and each one I give a recommendation for a type of magnetic field therapy, not a specification. Can you go and get your own device? You can get it from wherever you want, as long as it's the right machine for you for what you're dealing with. So, generally speaking, everybody should be doing whole body, right? Because we're talking about whole body regeneration, whole, whole body entropy, anti entropy therapy, whole body stimulation of stem cells, etcetera. So then you need the right piece of equipment and a minimum of 15 gauss. Minimum of 15 gauss. And then again, based on what you've got and what you're dealing with, you probably need to have more. For most of us, probably, we need a minimum of probably about 4000 gauss most of the time.
And that's a whole body system.
[01:00:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And is there a danger, because we're looking at, we want to get even to the heart and all these different areas in our bodies. Is there a danger to buy then a strong unit and daily be on 4000 gals and treat yourself every day?
[01:01:04] Speaker C: So the 4000 gauss that I mentioned has more to do with the smaller applicators that are concentrated. They concentrate the magnetic field.
[01:01:11] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:01:12] Speaker C: Mo body pads are not that powerful.
They're probably about half the intensity, because you're spreading the magnetic field around a bigger area, so there's almost no danger. What happens. Research, fortunately, has shown us quite a while ago, years ago, in fact, that healthy cells ignore the magnetic field.
The healthy cells say, oh, I don't need you, thank you, bye.
But cells that are damaged, cells that are struggling, that need the sodium potassium pump to be working, need the calcium and magnesium to be transiting properly, need the proteins and the nutrients get into the cells better. Well, they are the ones that take that field and use that energy to then amp up their, their function.
So if it's, if anything, it's wasted, it's not harmful, it's just wasted.
[01:01:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Good. And, and what are some kind of a general direction? I mean, how, how much should a person, just for preventative medicine, anti aging, what is kind of a good measure just to do on a daily basis?
[01:02:17] Speaker C: Again, that depends on the system that you have. If you have a magnetic system that's one gauss, you need to be doing it all day long.
[01:02:27] Speaker B: You need to crank that unit up.
[01:02:30] Speaker C: And most of the time, those systems that are that weak are basically just doing acupuncture. So one of the key actions of magnetic field therapy is to stimulate the acupuncture system.
So the weak magnetic systems all are basically doing is stimulating the active function points. They can't heal, they can't heal deep into the body people feel better. But you have to measure, you do measurements for healing, you don't see the results so you've got to get the right intensity. Then the question becomes, as we said 2000, 5000 biochemical processes per second. How much treatment time do you need?
I showed you that slide with the non union fractures, that's pathology.
And for those with that magnetic system that was only 18 dose you needed to do 9 hours a day.
I generally tell people if you got the right piece of equipment because most people have time limits anyway, time is a big problem for most people and the ability to do the treatment at the time that you have available now you could treat in a chair, it'll give you some benefits. It's not the same as laying down.
So I would say a minimum of 30 minutes, twice a day, first thing in the morning to get rid of the cobwebs from the night before.
Right. Restoke the metabolism, get things flowing again and then at the end of the day, because every day we live whether we feel stressed or not, it's a stress to live.
And so you build up those stress hormones, sympathetic stress in the body typically as the day goes on and at the end of the day is going to wash that stress out of your body and prepare your body for sleep. So if you're doing the treatment just before bedtime, hopefully it won't get jazzed up too much then basically you'll fall asleep. I have trouble when I do whole body magnetic therapy. I can't read.
My brain just has gotten really quiet.
I just want to chill out. Just totally relax.
[01:04:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
And I would assume if a person when they do this half an hour, twice a day to maybe drink some electrolytes and some water before to really hydrate the cells to maximize the impact of the treatment.
[01:04:42] Speaker C: Well ideally you're hydrated before.
It's hard to hydrate at the time that you're doing magnetic therapy because that water has to get into the cells, has to be absorbed, has to be moved out through the circulation and has to go through the kidneys and has to go someplace. So hydration should be happening I think basically as a whole day process. So at the very least maybe an hour before you do magnetic therapy, if you're going to only do it once a day, then do it an hour before the same thing with food. So if you eat, that food has to be broken down and metabolized, brought into the system, get into the cells, and then the cells can use it. Well, if you do make that feel therapy right after you eat, you haven't had time to do all that. So ideally, you need an hour or 2 hours after you've eaten for all that food, that nutrition to benefit you, unless you do IV therapy.
[01:05:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that. That's why I like our center. IV therapy and the math at the same time. That.
[01:05:39] Speaker C: Right, right.
[01:05:41] Speaker B: Well, doctor Pollock, it's such a pleasure, always. I mean, you're such a wealth of knowledge and it's a such a powerful, powerful tools and powerful medicine that you're educating all this about. And thank you so much for taking this time.
[01:05:57] Speaker C: My pleasure. So I want to make one final comment. You mentioned at the very beginning in the bio information that my big focus is on pain. Yes, but the focus is not on pain.
The focus is on healing, and that removes the pain. So if all I did is treat the pain, then it's going to come back, which is typically does with band aids. Right. Ibuprofen, et cetera. So we want to heal the cause, and this is where regenerative medicine comes in. We're trying to heal the tissue so the pain goes away and stays away.
That's the goal. Healing and regeneration.
[01:06:33] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And, yeah, pain is the body's way of communicating that something is not healing appropriately. So just by taking a medication to reduce the pain, the signal of the pain doesn't take care. It's kind of like putting a little sticker on the dashboard, the red light in the car, and say something's wrong with the car. And we put a little sticker over that red light, and now all of a sudden, we don't feel the pain, we don't see the pain. But the reason for that alarm signal being there is still not gone. So. So the key, like you're mentioning, it's not band aid therapy, it's not symptom management, but it is to really address the reason why the body is trying to let us know that something is wrong, which is what a pain signal is.
[01:07:27] Speaker C: And the symptom management has its own problems.
Right. 16,000 people a year die from nonsteroidal, anti inflammatory gastric bleeding. 16,000.
That's as many people as die from HIV.
[01:07:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
And I. And I know that this is. This is the very reason you started in this, you know, seeing. Yeah. So, yeah, people really need to understand the danger of pharmaceutical pain management and the importance to address the underlying reason for the pain being there. And here you have a tool that can do that properly set.
[01:08:06] Speaker C: Thank you.
[01:08:07] Speaker B: You're very welcome. Thanks so much Doctor Pollack oh thank you.
[01:08:18] Speaker A: The information in this podcast is for educational purposes only and it's not designed to diagnose or treat any disease. I hope this podcast impacted you as it did me. Please subscribe so that you can be notified when new episodes are released. There are some excellent shows coming up that you do not want to miss. If you are enjoying these podcasts, please take a moment to write a review and please don't keep this information to yourself. Share them with your family and friends. You never know what piece of information that will transform their lives. For past episodes and powerful information on how to conquer Lyme, go to integrativelimesolutions.com and an additional powerful resource, limestream.com. for Lyme support and group discussions. Join Lyme Conquerors mentoring Lyme warriors on Facebook. If you'd like to know more about the cutting edge integrative of Lyme therapies MyCenter offers, please visit thecarlfeldcenter.com. thank you for spending this time with us and I hope to see you at our next episode of Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Karlfeldt.
