[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Karl Feldt.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: I am so excited about the show.
[00:00:07] Speaker A: That we have ahead of us.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: We have some phenomenal information that could save lives.
[00:00:13] Speaker C: You're gonna need to tune in to what's going on today. The information is jam packed, so don't step away.
Well, Doctor Neal Nathan, I am so excited to have you on the regenerative summit. And you are one of the leaders here in the field of toxicity, dealing with mold toxicity, Bartonella, Lyme and so forth. Thank you so much for joining me today.
[00:00:44] Speaker B: Thank you for having me.
[00:00:46] Speaker C: I wanted for the viewers just to kind of get understanding a little bit about who you are. I mean, you are someone that a lot of other practitioners are really looking for information and for understanding how to resolve these complex issues. I know you've been practicing medicine for 50 years. I mean, five decades, half a century. That's a long time.
And you're board certified in family practice, pain management as a founding diploma, a diplomat of the American Board of Integrative Holistic Medicine, and a founding diplomat of Iciel.
You've written several books, including Healing as possible, New Hope for chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, persistent pain and other chronic illnesses, and on hope and healing for those who have fallen through the medical cracks. You've boasted you're hosted an internationally syndicated radio program podcast on Voice America called the Cutting Edge of Health and Wellness today. You've been working to bring an awareness that mold toxicity is a major contributing factor for patients with chronic illness, and lectures internationally on this subject, which led to the publication of your ebook Mold and Mycotoxins, current evaluations and treatments in 2016, and then your best selling book, which I have right here. It is a book that I refer to quite frequently, toxic heal your body from mold toxicity, Lyme disease, multiple chemical sensitivities, and chronic environmental illnesses.
Your new book out, I guess, was last year, an energetic diagnosis, a discussion of the value of intuition and energetic devices as an aid to both diagnosis and treatment of medical illnesses.
You can then be contacted most easily through your website, which is neilnathanmd.com, through which consultations are available. You're currently providing mentorship and the treatment of chronic inflammatory illnesses to approximately 150 physicians with Jill Christa, ND and for those interested in mentorship. And you can go, people can go to your website and to register.
Doctor Nathan, you have been treating chronic complex medical illnesses for 25 years now and Lyme disease for the past 15 years. As your practice has evolved, he finds himself increasingly treating the patients who have become so sensitive and toxic that they can no longer tolerate the usual treatments. And his major current interest is in finding unique ways of helping them to recover. Oh, you. Thank you so much for what you are providing to us out here that are suffering.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: You're very welcome. This is my life work. What can I say?
[00:03:54] Speaker C: I'm curious, what brought you into this direction?
Your medical practice. Regular MD, I would assume, and most mds, if it, if there's nothing wrong on a normal CBC, CMP, or maybe your lipid panel, then there's something wrong in your head and here is some antidepressants, and go home and forget that you're ill. So what brought you in this direction?
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Well, actually, that could be a whole podcast by itself, but when I went to medical school, I was rather naive. I wanted to be a healer when I grew up, and I was rather surprised that I wasn't going to learn how to be a healer when I went to medical school, they were going to teach me to be a medical technician, and that's fine, but I just had hopes of healing people at a deeper level, that kind of whatever people needed, I would find a way to get it for them. Even if I didn't do it myself.
I would network with people who could do that. So when I left medical school, that's when my education began, and I began to study wide variety of alternatives, and rather quickly, even in the community that I practiced, and I was a fairly standard family doc in those days. I was delivering babies, did a little bit of surgery, worked in the emergency room, your basic medical practice. But the doctors in the area began to realize that I was particularly interested in those patients, that they weren't able to help. I just thought that's where the rubber meets the road in terms of what I don't know and what I need to learn in order to be able to help them. So I embarked on my lifelong journey of studying things like osteopathic manipulation and cranial work, homeopathy, therapeutic touch, acupuncture, kind of, you name it, I probably did it at some point, and that gave me a very different perspective about what healing was about than many of my colleagues. So my lifelong interest in helping people that other people didn't figure out continued in the.
In the late eighties, I was running a pain clinic, and began to see an odd condition, which we called fibrositis, now called fibromyalgia, that didn't make any sense. It was this vast array of symptoms that didn't connect to anything originally people thought, this has got to be psychological, because nothing could do all of that. Psychological treatments didn't do anything. So it was really clear to me it's not a psychological condition, but I don't know what it is. Over the next couple of decades, we learned a tremendous amount about fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue and what caused it. We learned tremendous about it biochemically. We then began to learn that Lyme disease was more prevalent than people realized. We began to learn that mold toxicity was a big player. And so, again, I began to attract complicated patients that my colleagues didn't quite know what to do with and evolved into an understanding of what we now call complex medical problem solving. I don't even know if that's a real thing, but it's.
So that's kind of how I got where I am now.
[00:07:54] Speaker C: And so for people out there, I mean, there's so many people struggling with this health issue, headaches, pain, depression, anxiety. I mean, when should a person start looking at, you know, maybe it's mold, maybe it's Lyme, maybe some chronic infection that may be a driver in what I'm dealing with.
When is that a feasibility to do that?
[00:08:20] Speaker B: As soon as possible. Because if you wait to diagnose Lyme disease, it'll get worse.
If you wait to diagnose mold toxicity, it'll get worse. And many patients have had these conditions for years before they find a physician who can go, oh, okay, I understand what you've got, and I know how to treat it. So the key take home message is they're treatable if you diagnose it. So as soon as you are working with a physician or healthcare provider of any kind and you're not making progress, start thinking about something along these lines. It be similar to if you had something wrong with your car and you brought it into your mechanic, and you took several visits and it wasn't getting solved, you'd go to another mechanic. But people don't do that with their healthcare providers. It's like, oh, they're such a good person. They care. They really, their heart's right in it.
I want to stick with them.
It's a very odd perception, but if you're not getting better, start turning over stones. Start figuring out what's wrong. Because if you. It's the old thing that if you keep. I think Albert Einstein said, if you keep doing the same thing over and over again with no results, that's the definition of insanity.
[00:09:54] Speaker D: Hello, dear listeners. This is Doctor Michael Karlfeldt, your host of integrative Lyme Solutions. Today, I'm excited to share an exclusive opportunity from the Karlfeld center, where we blend healing power of nature with groundbreaking therapies to combat lyme disease and its associated challenges. At the Karlfold center, we're not just fighting Lyme, we're revolutionizing the way it's treated with cutting edge therapies like photodynamic therapy, full body ozone IV therapy, Silver IV's, brain rebalancing, autonomic response testing, laser energetic detoxification and more. We aim to eradicate Lyme. Our approach is comprehensive, supporting your body's immune system, detoxification processes, hormonal balance, and mitochondrial health, ensuring a holistic path to recovery. Understanding Lyme disease and its impact is complex, which is why we're offering a free 15 minutes discovery call with one of our Lyme literate naturopathic doctors. This call is your first step towards understanding how we can personalize your healing journey, focusing on you as a whole person, not just your symptoms. Our team, led by myself, doctor Michael Karlfilz, is here to guide you through your recovery with the most advanced diagnostic tools, individualized treatment plans, and supportive therapies designed to restore your health and vitality. Whether you're facing Lyme disease head on or seeking preventative strategies, we're committed to your wellness. Take the first step towards reclaiming your health. Visit
[email protected] or call us at 208-338-8902 to schedule your free discovery call at the Karlfold center. We believe in healing naturally, effectively and holistically. Thank you for tuning in into integrative Lyme solution with Doctor Karl Feld. Remember, true health is not just the absence of disease, it's achieving the abundance of vitality. Let's discover yours together.
[00:11:55] Speaker C: I know a lot of my patients when they come to me and I hear their story, and I'm sure it's the same with you, is that they have a reluctancy to shift practitioner because they, they feel that this practitioner, they may not have all the solutions, but at least they understand them somewhat and they don't want to start a new relationship because this practitioner kind of knows their story already. And to tell their story again, it's just tiring to have to tell it again and again.
[00:12:32] Speaker B: That's true. But there's a bottom line here, which is if you're not getting better under someone's career, and that includes mine, then you need to go somewhere else where someone has other ideas or other ways of looking at it that might lead to a solution.
I understand that connection.
But over the years, and I've been doing this for a long time, what I've learned is that caring isn't enough. I've sometimes had a patient work with me for years, and at some point, I'll look at them like, why are you still here? I haven't helped you. And they'll say, I know, but you care.
And in the past, in my earlier days, I would go, well, that's true. I do care. So I guess we'll keep trying here.
But as I've gotten older, I don't think I'm doing them a service. So what I've learned is that caring isn't enough.
I not only have to care, I have to actually figure out the root cause of illness if I'm going to help somebody.
[00:13:40] Speaker C: And so when a person is embarking on this journey, I mean, they're recognizing they're not getting any results.
Their medical doctor or practitioner is not moving the needle in any shape or form.
What would be the next step that they should pursue? Is it a certain type of test they should look for? Certain type of practitioner they should try to find on the Internet? I mean, what should they do? I mean, obviously, they do need to get your book. There are no ifs and buts about that. But what will be kind of a practical next step for them?
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Well, I appreciate suggesting my books could be helpful, and they could.
The problem is, it isn't as simple as there's one way to approach this. It really depends on the specific symptoms that someone has. For example, I do a lot of work with people who have really large scale systemic illnesses where all of the body things are involved. They have chronic fatigue and cognitive impairment, and they have anxiety and depression and respiratory issues and pain issues, and on and on and on. For people that complicated, we would start thinking about Lyme and mold toxicity as the two commonest things, and you'd try to find someone in that category. If you have a problem that's more specific, migraines, say, then those two conditions wouldn't be the first thing I'd be looking at for migraine. I'd want to find a pain specialist, someone who had a broader perspective about the causes of migraine. Because there are multiple causes, and for each individual, you have to figure out which ones apply to them specifically. For some people, it's structural. They should be seeing an osteopath or a chiropractor. For some people, it's stress they need to work. For some people, it's food allergy or food related issues and so on. So, for some people, it's hormonal you need to work with. So everything in medicine, the longer you study it, is complicated. So, unfortunately, for each condition that you could name, I could probably rattle off, these are the people you ought to be seeing to do it with. I think the message is, again, if you're not getting well, doing what you're doing, look elsewhere. And sometimes you have to look elsewhere for a while until you stumble on where you want to go. Now, given that we have the Internet now, I'm not a big fan of Internet diagnoses. I've seen people make themselves sick by looking at their symptoms and deciding that they have an obscure illness that is life threatening. We used to call that when I went to medical school, medical student illness, where everything you're studying as a medical student, you'd go, oh, I might have that, because you have one symptom out of the 30 that is listed there. So consumers are in the same ballpark. I mean, they don't know how to put what they have in context, but there still are lists of diagnostic possibilities that you can find on the Internet. And if you come to it with an open heart and an open mind, then it's like, oh, I never thought about this, or, oh, I never thought about that. And perhaps you can even bring that to your current practitioner. Who cares? And they can go, oh, I didn't think about Lyme disease, or I didn't think about mold toxicity.
I think that's the best advice I can give to our listeners, because it's complicated.
[00:17:49] Speaker C: Yeah. I run a podcast called integrative Lyme solutions with Doctor Karl felt, and it always fascinates me, over and above just my own patients, the stories of people, how they journey, you know, 20 years, and they have 30 plus different diagnoses, and. And they've gone through at least a dozen of different doctors, if not more, during that process, and there's still no, no better until they finally then find out that, yes, it was Lyme disease and started on that journey to resolve it and then get better. So it always fascinates me that what if we, like you said, as soon as possible to start test for that, because it is much more prevalent than we think it is.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: The CDC recognizes now that there are 400,000 new cases of Lyme disease every year. It's a bigger epidemic than AIDS ever was, and mold toxicity is probably even more. It's estimated that there are 10 million Americans at this moment suffering with some symptoms of mold toxicity. But most medical practitioners are unaware of both of these conditions, which is baffling in this information age in which we live.
But there's politics involved in that.
It's fascinating that new devices, new technology, new drugs get fast forwarded in medical thinking, but new ideas, new diagnoses. Oh, we got to think about that. We've got to study that more. We've got to see a lot more papers published before I'm convinced that that's a real thing. While patients are languishing with illnesses that we can diagnose and we can treat, it is a travesty, but it is the way that science and medicine evolves, which is painfully slowly.
[00:20:01] Speaker C: And what I see with patients coming into me, where they all of a sudden start to feel kind of brain fog, anxiety, a little depression, maybe autoimmune hashimoto's, and they're starting to all of a sudden see these things and.
And then try several different treatments that obviously does not work.
And then we start testing for mold, and there it is. And start treating it, and how it just turns around.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Right. I had a physician that I'm working with in New York who wrote me this week that he had a patient who had a test for autoimmunity called Ana, and their Ana was one to 1200, which is a significant number. Most immunologists or rheumatologists would look at that and go, oh, my God, you've got a major condition going. But for those of us who work with mold and Lyme, we see elevated Anas before. People have actually evolved some autoimmune conditions, and if we treat it, it completely goes away. He wrote me that a patient that I had been consulting with him on had this, what he thought was a remarkable number. And then he said, it's gone. How often does that happen? And I went, actually, it happens a lot.
I'm glad that you're starting to have that experience, but you're now seeing that these conditions trigger autoimmunity. And anyone with an autoimmune condition should be looking at lime and mold, because they are two of the major triggers that we're seeing in the world today.
[00:21:47] Speaker C: And I mean, medically, what would be done for that kind of individual? I mean, he would be put, he or she, that patient would be put on some biologics or some steroid or something just to shut down the immune system response, instead of then looking at what is the driver, what is the triggering factor, and then addressing that. I usually liken it as the, I mean, you can treat a sliver in several ways. I mean, you can kind of leave it there, and you can do antibiotics and you can do steroids and pain medication, or you can just pull out the sliver. I mean, you can either treat the cause or you can try to manage the symptoms. And treating the cause is always obviously the better option.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: Right. In this particular case, the patient had mold toxicity and was very successfully treated in a relatively short time.
Had she been given steroids or immune suppressive medication, it would have made her worse majorly. Even in a short period of time, that would have been the actual wrong thing to do by not looking at cause.
Gosh, I hate to say it, but I think a fair amount of harm gets done because we're looking for putting at band aids on things without, as you're saying, looking at the cause.
[00:23:12] Speaker C: And so where's a good, so if you're with a practitioner and you're suspecting maybe mold or lime, let's say mold, for instance, what would be some of the tests that you would suggest to be able to pinpoint that this could be a reason? And are there ways to go about to maximize the detection of mold in those tests?
[00:23:39] Speaker B: Well, there is very simple. You can collect a urine specimen first thing in the morning, mail it off to any of several labs that can analyze it for mold toxins, and we get our answer.
So that's the simple answer to expand, which I think you're asking me to do, is we've also learned that mold toxicity interferes with the body's ability to detoxify. So you could be sitting on a boatload of mold toxin and not be able to actually excrete it into your urine, which is what the test would show. So we have found that if you prepare the body by taking glutathione for several days before you collect the urine to mobilize toxin. If you take a sauna or a hot bath the night before you collect your urine, again to mobilize mold toxin, even with that detoxification challenge, you're going to at least optimize the possibility that if the mold is there, you're going to see it in the urine. And it's usually pretty straightforward. It's a simple urine test that anybody can do.
Children get mold toxicity. It's easy to collect children urine, so not a hard test to do, and gives us a ton of information quickly and well.
[00:25:09] Speaker C: And I'm glad you brought in children, because a lot of you have these children dealing with ADD, ADHD, even autism, any kind of learning disabilities to really? Or where they just act out, you know, all of a sudden, they're just acting out. To look at these, I mean, these factors as reasons behind these behaviors, you know, that. I mean, it's literally a brain that is inflamed, and it's inflamed by something.
[00:25:40] Speaker B: Excellent point. So there are many, we now know many causes, root causes for autism, add behavior issues and looking for them.
Gosh, if you have a child and they're struggling, and then the whole family is struggling, it really behooves you to get to the bottom of it as soon as you can so you can help that kid, and we can. Now, we have a lot more tools now than we had 25 years ago.
[00:26:16] Speaker C: And why do you think that it is worse now than before?
Because we've been around mold. It's not like mold is a new thing. It's not like lime is a new thing. It's been around forever. And why are we seeing a higher impact on our well being from their presence than we used to?
[00:26:38] Speaker B: Well, I think there's a lot of reasons for it, but from my perspective, the primary reason is the increasing toxicity of the world we live in. We have 80,000 chemicals currently in our environment, the vast majority of which didn't exist 50 years ago. We have tested for safety, perhaps 500.
And so we have literally tens of thousands of chemicals that we're getting exposed to that didn't run around in the past. We add to that electromagnetic field exposure, emFs, which has amplified profoundly, the addition of which advertisement will tell you is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It looks like just a little bump, four to five, but it's actually a jump of a thousand fold exposure, so that we're seeing marked increases now in EMF sensitivity. We saw some of it before, but now we're seeing it profoundly. So we have.
When I went to school, for example, in all of my classrooms, maybe one or two children had asthma.
And when my children went to school, and that's 40 years ago, a quarter of the kids had asthma. They all had their own inhalers. So in that short period of time, we're talking years ago, it's worse now.
The exposure in the school room to these chemicals has profoundly affected people's immune system and their capacity to detoxify our poor livers. This is for all of us. Our poor livers are being exposed to so much stuff that they're overworked and overtired and underpaid, and they're struggling with the burden that our planet is giving us. So, I mean, forgive me, but I know that's not a message anyone wants to hear.
It's absolutely crucial that we wake up to this and do something about it yesterday, because it's already beyond the pale in terms of how it is affecting the health of our whole planet.
It's not just us.
[00:29:12] Speaker C: And I feel also this post pandemic era where we're thinking we have to kill everything and we use harsh chemicals to sterilize environments where our school, where our children go in schools, we're on airplanes in our work environment. And that obviously will intensify that toxic load, which will reduce our ability to deal with these things like lime and mold even more.
[00:29:43] Speaker B: Absolutely. But also keep in mind, it isn't just the use of these toxic chemicals, it's the underlying fear and paranoia that is driving it. Because we have known for generations that these chemicals, in the long run, don't work, and that all they do is they make a stronger bug that makes the pathogen, whatever it is, a virus or bacteria, stronger. They evolve faster than we do to blow off whatever we're using to supposedly kill them in our fear. And I really don't want to miss that point. We're as a society, being driven to do things that are medically illogical and don't work, and we're going to be picking up the remains of that problem.
[00:30:34] Speaker C: And we are already, and I'm curious, since obviously we need an, not just a strong immune system, but we need an intelligent immune system in order to be able to respond to these different pathogens and also to whatever we're exposed to around us. And so this fear, what does it do to our immune system? Does it make it stronger, better?
[00:31:03] Speaker B: It trashes it. And you already knew the answer to that question.
It trashes it. Fear and stress profoundly weaken the immune system. We know that stress, fear is a component of almost every illness under the sun, either triggering it or making it worse. So this fear that is global now is not helpful. We are taking the wrong attitude to what's been happening to us for the last two and a half years. And it shows. It shows in the violence that's being perpetrated across the country.
It's a breakout of emotion that people who have been isolated, unable to see each other's faces, unable to be in the presence of loved ones and family, is. Isolation is not what human beings were ever created for. We are basically social animals. And you take that away from us, we go, ah.
[00:32:18] Speaker C: And so we're looking at different factors that we didn't have many, many years ago. One, we're dealing with the toxicity that's much higher, dealing with all the electro smog, the EMF 5G, all of these things. And now we also have that factor of additional fear. So, obviously, all of those factors will impede our ability to deal with things like Lyme, mold, cancer, autoimmune, whatever it may be, and then also just, that's kind of the impact on our body. But then we look at the impact of these factors on the different bacteria, viruses, spirochetes that maybe have been in our body, but really haven't done much, just hung out there, or mold that might be there, but our immune system was handling it, controlling it. But now we bring in these other factors. How do these factors impact then the. The biomes and the viromes and all the things that live inside of us that is not our own cells?
[00:33:29] Speaker B: They do, we don't know with precision yet exactly how and in what way, but we know we've made them more toxic.
One of our colleagues, Doctor Dietrich Klinghardt, for example, has done some research on, and believes that 5G is particularly odious to mold, and it makes it more virulent. Forgive my language, but it is if the 5G is pissing off the mold, and therefore it's coming at us in a more virulent way. And again, there are some preliminary studies suggesting that this is actually true. We haven't nailed it down yet, but from the way these pathogens are behaving, I don't think there's any question that to some extent, this is happening.
[00:34:26] Speaker C: So I would assume that as we are being threatened, I mean, our immune system and our cells are impacted by these things, the bacteria and the viruses, they get threatened by that as well. And when they are threatened, that trigger survival mechanism, which will make them replicate faster, which will make them spew out more toxic chemicals to protect themselves. I mean, that would just be an assumption of mine.
[00:34:55] Speaker B: It's not only an assumption that we know that molds make toxins when they are threatened.
To make a toxin for a mold cell is entered requires a great deal of energy. It's not an efficient way to use energy for them, so they only make it when they have to. So especially when they feel threatened, that's when they make more toxin. There are papers in the medical literature showing, for example, that when we give certain antifungal medications, it stimulates the molds to make more toxin in response. Now, we have to live with that, because sometimes we have to use that in treatment, but we just know that, okay, that's a response that they're going to have. Until we can get that mold out of the body, in which then the body can reboot itself. Literally, the body wants to heal itself. And it's our job to figure out the impediments to healing, like what is preventing that body from utilizing its natural resource to be able to heal. That's. That's kind of our work.
[00:36:04] Speaker C: So in addition, what it sounds like then, in addition to then working on maybe antifungal or using tools and to go after them directly, it is important then to change the environment that they exist within. And just by doing that, we can then change their behavior to a less virulent state. So to say.
[00:36:35] Speaker B: Yes.
But I think you're also bringing up the point that if you are exposed to mold at home or work at school, in your car, you have to identify that and get out of that environment where you cannot get well. That constant exposure to the mold doesn't allow the body to heal. And although that seems obvious and simplistic, it's very difficult actually to do that. It's not always easy to analyze an environment for the presence of mold and how safe it is. And logistically, it can be very hard to remediate. It can be very expensive, can't always move. And not only is in a position that you can do that. So this puts a lot of our patients in a considerable bind that we have to work our way through.
[00:37:31] Speaker C: And so how would a person, what is the best way of going about that? Because I have patients, they come and they say, my house been analyzed. There's no mold. And then I asked them, well, how did they do it? Well, they took a few air samples in the middle of the room and there was no mold there. So they feel secure. It couldn't be mold. How do you.
[00:37:54] Speaker B: There's some denial there. They don't want it to be mold. So, yes, I like that report. I like that test, unfortunately, and I know you're implying it, the air sampling is the least accurate way to tell if mold is in an environment, because, as you say, it samples mold spores in the center of the room. Well, that's great, except mold spores are heavier than air and they're on the floor. Gravity has already pulled them down to the floor. So if you take molds sampling here, you're rarely going to find it, even if it's present. It has to be extreme to be in that particular environment. So that's not the right way to do it. What you have to do is analyze the dust on the floor to know what's in that room. And there's a test called Ermi. ERmi which can do that quite accurately. A cheaper test is to get hold of mold plates, which are simply petri dishes that grow mold. And you simply take the top of the petri dish off, you put the plate on the floor, and you be assured that the air in the room circulates. Then you leave it exposed to air for 2 hours. Put the top of the plate on, and you see what grows over four or five days. And that's a eye opening experience for some people. I mean, they don't want to see it, but when they look at these moldy plates with this obvious colonies of molds on the plate, after four days, it's going, oh my goodness, there is mold in this environment. I better figure it out. So we can then analyze those plates to know whether the mold that's growing is toxic or non toxic, and then know, okay, we have a problem. We're growing a whole bunch of colonies of Asperger's or penicillium, other mold species. So, okay, I can't just let the remediator come in and measure the air sample. I've got to, they've got to really look, where is this thing coming from?
[00:39:59] Speaker C: And so we've been focusing a lot then on the mold and the lime or why are these the most important? Because we have things like Epstein bar, cytomegalovirus. I mean, there's so many different infectious agents that, that are concerning. But when a person is dealing with these complex issues, from my understanding, mold and then Lyme and specifically Bartonella are the two that you feel are kind of the public enemy number one, the one to address first. And if you don't address that, then you're not going to make a lot of traction in dealing with public enemy number two and three and so forth.
[00:40:44] Speaker B: Just from my experience, and I think that many other people who work in this field have had the same experience, for whatever reason, mold and Lyme are a more profound, inflammatory, chronic illness than others. Yes, there are other, there's Epstein Barr virus and hhv six. There's chlamydia and mycoplasma infections. They do occur, and they can become chronic.
The immune system can deal with those better.
If you have several of these infections, if you cure the Lyme and mold, the immune system will rebound. So it, by itself, in its own natural way, will bring the other infections under containment most of the time, not always. Most of the time. So we have priorities. If you don't get the mold in line and you start working on the Epstein bar, it's like the body goes. That's not what's making me sick. I've got a more serious infection here. And the way our immune systems work is that it is identifying the main culprit that's making us sick. It doesn't matter what our lab tests show. The body knows with certainty. This is what I've got to get rid of in order for it to work. The other part of that is, I think, some practitioners aren't paying attention to the totality of symptoms that patients have. So that you get a very high titer for Epstein Barr, for example, and going, oh, this is an Epstein Barr infection. Well, is that explaining all of the patient's symptoms? It could explain fatigue. It could explain maybe a little cognitive impairment, maybe a little neurological stuff, but this whole gamut of symptoms, Epstein Barr wouldn't explain it. So a lot of patients that I see have been treated for several years for viral infections, unsuccessfully, because that's not what the body identifies as what I call public enemy number one. You have to go to the infection that your immune system believes is the problem, not what I see on a piece of paper. I hope I'm being clear about that.
[00:43:05] Speaker C: Yeah, I love that. And that's why you've mentioned doctor Dieter Klinghardt and his art testing, which I utilize quite a bit in my practice.
It's one of those things that I love. I'm not sure if you're using it. I know you have many tools that can guide you on your journey, but I really like them to see what the body is telling me that it needs at that moment, rather than just what looks bad on a test. We want to see what the body is saying.
[00:43:37] Speaker B: Right? Finding ways of getting the body to communicate. Now it does by symptoms. So we could say, well, that's got to be complicated. Listening to the body. Not particularly.
My first job when I start working with patients is to get the most comprehensive catalog of their symptoms, ranked in the order that it bothers them the most. Then I can look at the big picture and go, okay, what would cause that?
And that then directs me to the testing I would do. So there are certain people that. I mean, I'm supposed to be a mold expert, and I probably am. So a lot of people think that's all I do, but I don't think that way.
I don't walk into any treatment room ever with a preconceived idea of what I'm going to find or what I think is going on. What I'm looking at is what is this being suffering with? And what would explain that? So sometimes the symptom complex screams Lyme or bartonella or babesia to me rather than mold. And so again, a healthcare practitioner needs to really focus on symptoms, because if the symptoms aren't explained by the label you're putting on it, you got to.
[00:45:04] Speaker C: Find a new label, and you still have to look at the totality of the individual.
It's not just going after the mold or going after the Lyme. You still gotta work on the endocrine system.
Does hormones, are the adrenals strong enough to be able to handle that we're going after?
Gotta look at the detox pathways. Are we able to move some of this out as we are addressing it?
Like you mentioned, it's not just all about mold, it's about everything.
[00:45:37] Speaker B: No, these are complex illnesses. And your point is excellent, that both mold and Lyme affect the pituitary's ability to regulate hormones. So it's really common for adrenal, thyroid and sex hormones to be out of balance. And those need to be addressed early in treatment to help the patient not only feel better, but restore their ability to heal to a certain extent. And then super commonly with again, these named conditions.
Once they've been going on for a while, they will affect the limbic system, they'll affect the vagus nerve, they will often trigger what we call mast cell activation, all of which sensitize the body and add another layer of inflammation to an already inflamed system. And often they need to be treated first before that being is able to tolerate the treatments that we want to give it for mold and Lyme. So, yes, it's complicated, but the medical practitioner field is growing incrementally in our understanding of this complexity. We're realizing that, no, it's not simple, but yes, it's not so complicated. We can't not only understand it, but that understanding allows us to provide treatments.
[00:47:02] Speaker C: That will be quite effective in regard to the limbic system and vagus nerve. I mean, here you're looking at your fight or flight, you're looking at your survival mechanism, which we talked about earlier in regards to that fear. But then if you, these pathogens then tend to dysregulate that system, and if that is dysregulated, you will always be, you will never be in that regenerative state where you're able to detoxify, heal.
So what are some of the things that a person can do then to heal those areas?
[00:47:43] Speaker B: Well, I separate them into what I think each of those areas are. Although they overlap, there's a very intimate connection between the mast cells, the limbic and the vagal system.
All of those systems are designed for protection. They're monitoring our bodies internally and externally for safety. And if they don't think we're safe, they're going to shut us down and not let us move forward. Essentially, we're in survival mode. And in survival mode we're not able to respond to treatments that would otherwise work, even simple things. You could be deficient, for example, on testing for magnesium or zinc, and you could take magnesium and zinc. And for someone who's not in survival mode, taking that would be great. I feel better already. This is wonderful. Survival mode. Why are you giving me this? That's not what I need right now. I need to feel safer first. Then you have to get out of me. What's making me in survival mode? So the limbic system neurologically is related to primarily sensitivity and emotion. So if patients were previously relatively calm, straightforward people, and all of a sudden they're anxious or panic attacks or depressed or mood swings or they're angry or irritable, probably limbic, if in addition to that they have developed sensitivity to any of the above or all of them, light, sound, touch, chemicals, EMF, that's limbic. And a lot of people don't recognize that. Okay, that means I've got to reboot my limbic system first. And there are many methods for doing that. The two that I use the most are the Annie Hopper DNRS program or the Eshak Gupta amygdala retraining program.
Now, usually hand in hand with that are what we call the vagal nervous system, which is a different part of the brain, but it works with the limbic system to do this monitoring for safety.
The vagus nerve has more of a function that has to do with the autonomic nervous system. Intestinal motility is completely dependent on the vagus nerve.
Then there are treatments for the vagus nerve which include a variety of exercises, cranial work, safe and sound, developed by Steven Porges. It's a sound based treatment, brain tap, a light and sound treatment, frequency specific microcurrent, EMDR all of these are different ways of rebooting the vagus nerve. And both the vagus and limbic have to be rebooted together to really make progress.
Then we turn to the mast cell activation. And again we've got many treatments available, both pharmaceutical and natural. Quercetin, peramine, all clear. Dao are natural treatments.
Things like claritin, zyrtec, allegra, pepcid, and a variety of others coming at mast cells from a variety of angles. My take home message is these are all treatable, but if you don't realize it needs to be treated, you could have someone just struggling, which is, you know, I can't take what you're trying to give me. People become unusually sensitive. They can't even take homeopathics in tiny doses. So backing up to look at those three areas becomes really important. For those people who have gotten sensitized. You have to restore a perception of safety. It's not psychological, although some people have had it implied by healthcare practitioners that this is in your head, you can't be feeling all of this. It's not psychological, it's neurological, and that has to be rebooted.
[00:51:58] Speaker C: So just kind of the take home message. What I'm hearing is that you need to address those three areas. The mast cell activation, the limbic, and then also the vagus nerve, and then also, then obviously change.
Assess the environment that you are in, what your exposures are. Do I have mold? Do I have a 5g tower just right outside my building?
What kind of toxins do I have in my home, in my workplace? And how can I minimize that? And that becomes the foundation that you have to start. And by having that foundation, you can then take the next step to be able to address these underlying infections.
[00:52:46] Speaker B: Right. Once the body is out of survival mode, once we've addressed things like mold and Lyme and the co infections, then a host of treatments that are well known to integrative practitioners become effective. Until you do that, often those treatments don't work. So I think if you want another take home message, the key is to be sure that the person you're working with is not in survival mode because they're not going anywhere with ordinary treatments. Until they are healthier, then they can, then their natural healing capacity moves in. They need a little bit of zinc or magnesium or vitamin B six or thiamine. We can give that to them and wow, they respond to it quickly and well, this is great. Now I have a system that's responsive.
[00:53:42] Speaker C: And for people are listening. I mean, when a person is in survival mode, we burn through nutrients at a much higher pace, like vitamin C, vitamin B. So the normal dosages, just to compensate for the amount of stress that's in the body, becomes so much higher when you're in that survival mode.
[00:54:07] Speaker B: Yep. And there's another factor, which is that some of the toxins, for example, we know that mold toxin interferes with the body's ability to absorb or utilize thiamine, which is vitamin B one. And thiamine is a crucial component of generating energy from the mitochondria and functioning of the autonomic nervous system. So you're absolutely right. We may need more. For example, the recommended daily amount of thiamin is six milligrams. Well, bodies need two to 400 milligrams of thiamine a day when they're deficient.
[00:54:51] Speaker C: And looking at the mycotoxins, I mean, why are they so, why are they so dangerous? I mean, what is their makeup that make them so have such an impact on the body?
[00:55:11] Speaker B: Well, it might help to understand that some of what we know about how to get the mycotoxins out of the body, we learned back in the seventies and eighties when the Department of Defense was looking at mycotoxins as biological warfare.
So some of the only human data we have about which binders actually work to pull these toxins out of the body come from that. So if you think about toxins being used for biological warfare, you get an idea of the amount of toxicity.
They're kind of a unique small molecule. We call them ionophores. So that they have in the molecule. On one end of the molecule is what's called a lipophilic group, which is a fat loving group, and the other is a hydrophilic group, which is a water loving group, meaning it can dissolve in fat, it can dissolve in water. Translation? It can go through any membrane in the body at will without needing an elaborate way to get through there. That means these toxins can go to any aspect or part of our body that it feels like. Not that it has consciousness, but that it can move around at will through our bodies. So that that's why so many organ systems can be affected by these mycotoxins.
[00:56:37] Speaker C: Because it can go anywhere. It can go into the cells, can travel. I mean, because it dissolves in both fat and water.
[00:56:43] Speaker B: And. Yeah, yeah, it can go through the blood brain barrier. It can go to the brain. It can go pretty much anywhere. So our normal defenses, like in our gut, don't work because there is no gut barrier to toxins coming through there. The same thing is true of our blood brain barrier, which prevents a lot of things from getting up into our brain. It doesn't exist for these toxins.
[00:57:09] Speaker C: Well, Doctor Nathan, I so appreciate everything that you do. I so appreciate that you've kind of taken the scepter in your hand.
And along with other practitioners, I know you work along with Jill Christa. That does a lot in this field as well. And people like Doctor Dietrich Klinghardt, you have these people that are at the forefront and helping all of us, other practitioners to really move us in understanding these complex disorders as we are exposed to them in our practice. So thank you so much for everything.
[00:57:50] Speaker B: Very welcome. I would like your listeners to know that I do have a mentorship program that I do with Jill Christa.
It's a unique program. Rarely do MDs and NDs talk to each other or actually collaborate in teaching. So it's kind of a unique program that Jill and I have put together for healthcare practitioners, and it's open. We welcome anyone who wants to learn from us about treating all of these chronic inflammatory conditions and how to really get to the nitty gritty and do it in detail. If you're interested, I'd welcome you to go to my website and check it out.
Thank you for the kind words. I'd like to leave the audience with a positive note. It's very scary what we're talking about. I know that. So I'm not here to scare you. What I'm here to say is everything we're talking about is diagnosable and treatable. So there is hope for anyone who's got these things. We do know how to do this at this particular point, so hang in there. There is hope. If you haven't been well for a while, you can find it.
[00:59:07] Speaker C: I love that. Yeah. Because what you are doing, it's exactly that. For the people that are frustrated, they have symptoms that medical doctors don't understand, and for them to realize that we have practitioners like yourself have made a huge headway in understanding what's going on and addressing it. And people with these complex disorders are now living great lives without these sufferings anymore. So, yeah, this is definitely a message of hope.
[00:59:40] Speaker B: Great. That's how it's intended.
[00:59:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you so much.
[00:59:43] Speaker B: You're very welcome. Thanks for having me.
[00:59:53] Speaker A: The information this podcast is for educational purposes only, and it's not designed to diagnose or treat any disease. I hope this podcast impacted you as it did me. Please subscribe so that you can be notified when new episodes are released. There are some excellent shows coming up that you do not want to miss. If you're enjoying these podcasts, please take a moment to write a review. And please don't keep this information to yourself. Share them with your family and friends, you never know what piece of information that will transform their lives. For past episodes and powerful information on how to conquer Lyme, go to integrativelimesolutions.com and an additional powerful resource, limestream.com. for Lyme support and group discussions, join Lyme Conquerors mentoring Lyme warriors on Facebook. If you'd like to know more about the cutting edge integrative of Lyme therapies MyCenter offers, please please visit thecarlfeldcenter.com. thank you for spending this time with us, and I hope to see you at our next episode of Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Karlfeldt.
