[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Karl Feldt.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: I am so excited about the show.
[00:00:07] Speaker C: That we have ahead of us.
[00:00:08] Speaker A: We have some phenomenal information that could save lives.
[00:00:13] Speaker C: You're gonna need to tune in to what's going on today. The information is jam packed, so don't step away.
Well, Doctor Ginger Savely, I'm so excited to have this chat with you today on integrative Lyme solutions. Thank you so much for joining me.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me. Always interested to talk about my favorite.
[00:00:39] Speaker C: Topic, and it's a topic that there's so many people that are. They're very confused about. I mean, we want to talk a little bit about Lyme and co infections, but I want to dig deep into morgellons that the Morgellons disease, which is a big, big deal. And you wrote a book about that, right?
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Right. Yes. Actually, it's been. Wow, seven and a half years now since I put the book out, and I really, really expected to put out a new edition every year with updating it with new findings or whatever, but actually, there have been no new findings since the time that I put it out. So it's staying the same right now, but nothing new has been discovered in terms of etiology or, you know, that's the main thing we need to find right now. Can't find any true treatment until we know what the heck is going on. Right. So. Yeah, so that's where we stand right now. Still a lot of mystery.
[00:01:47] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. So tell me, what. What drove you into this field to start with? I mean, Lyman. I mean. Cause that. That's got to be a passion, because it's not an easy field to work in.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: No, it's not.
I first got into it, like a lot of people do, because of personal and family experience.
I had a daughter that basically missed all of high school. She was an intravenous and wheelchair, and she was so sick. And I was working in family practice at that time, and I had started treating Lyme patients, but only just. I was kind of a little bit new in treating Lyme patients at that point, so. But anyway, so that's how I got started with the Lyme and co infections, because of my daughter. And then gradually, I started discovering that my other daughter had it, too. And then I had it, and then kind of took over the whole family for a while, so became very interested in it for that reason, of course. And then because I was doing family practice, if you're doing family practice and, you know, something about Lyme and co infections. You're picking it up every day.
I mean, just people would come in and say things like, oh, I just spent the summer in nantucket, and, you know, now I'm getting migraine headaches every day, you know, just things like that, you know, that you just couldn't ignore it. And I was practicing in Texas, and so most people in Texas don't believe that, you know, anybody could possibly have it. So I was fighting an uphill battle there in Texas, because I was considered to be doing something that was really not acceptable, because I was diagnosing people with an illness that they supposedly could not have.
But the Morgellons thing came up because just a certain percentage of these Lyme patients started to talk about filaments coming out of lesions, and just, they started bringing up some weird things, but they brought it up in a very hesitating manner, almost like they were afraid to even mention these things. But as I started to notice that more and more mylyme patients had it, then I started asking about it. And I would say to all my patients, do you have any unusual things coming out of your skin, filaments, anything like that? You have unusual lesions that just spontaneously appear?
And then more of my Lyme patients started telling me they had this. Since I was already involved in treating Lyme and co infections, and I found a certain percentage of them had the certain percentage of the Morgellons people had Lyme, I just started treating it like that, and I just figured, okay, well, I don't know what's causing this, but, you know, let's treat what we do know is there. And so I found that treating strictly for Lyme wasn't really doing it. And so then I eventually found that treating for Bartonella was really more where it was at. That's when I treated with Bartonella protocols. My patients with morgellons really started to get better.
Of course, if they have Lyme or they have babesia or any other co infection, I'm going to treat those. We need to remove every burden we can from the immune system. But for some reason, the Bartonella meds seem to work the best with these patients. I'm not saying for 1 minute that Bartonella causes this. Nobody knows what causes this. I'm just saying. Saying that the medications that work for Bartonella also work for this.
[00:05:36] Speaker C: And when you say the medication for Bartonella, are you talking about certain antibiotics, certain natural agents or what?
[00:05:44] Speaker B: Yeah, everything. Herbs and antibiotics, you know, different. Different things like rifampin and dapsone and sulfa drugs and added in with clarithromycin. I mean, usually there's a protocol of three or four antibiotics. And, you know, most people do respond really well. It's a slow going process, though. I know if you've been treating some of these people, you've noticed that yourself. So it takes a lot of reassurance and handholding during the process because, you know, it's just frustratingly slow.
Every now and then you find a patient where, oh, wow, they just respond so quickly and so beautifully. You know, they're so excited and, you know, that's great, you know, but sometimes, too, it has a lot to do with how long they've had it and how severe of case they have. Some of these folks that come to me have had it for 20 years, you know, and it's pretty well entrenched there in their bodies. So it's very, very hard to get them well, but we definitely get them better. And they're very thankful for getting better. It's just sometimes the ones that have been sick for a very long time don't really get 100%. They don't get back to that. But, you know, at least they're constantly getting better, which is an improvement. And plus, they're just so happy to be, be believed, you know, and have somebody say that this is a real thing and what's trying to help you.
[00:07:12] Speaker C: And that's, that's a big thing is exactly. I mean, when they come in, they're a little hesitant talking about it.
And then when somebody acknowledges that this is something that is real, that they are not the only ones dealing with these something, that type of symptoms, it becomes really reassuring. And then also that there's a path out of there because, I mean, these, you know, some of these patients that, that I have that come in with that, I mean, it's like, it's driving them insane, and then it's, they get hyper focused. You know, they're sitting there and they're picking these little fibers out of themselves and, and it's like they're continually that this has becomes their job 24/7 almost exactly.
[00:07:55] Speaker B: It does sort of bring out a tendencies toward OCD, which I can fully understand because if you had unusual objects coming out of your skin, you probably would start really hyper focusing on them. I have some patients very self aware that say, you know, I'm not, I've never been an OCD person, but I can see it in myself now. I'm OCD now. I cannot stop. I can't stop researching this. I can't stop looking at it with a microscope. And, you know, I mean, it's understandable, you know, when you have something very bizarre happening to you and you can't get anybody to believe you or help you, I mean, you know, of course you would become very, very entrenched in trying to understand it yourself.
[00:08:42] Speaker C: So tell me, kind of for an understanding for people out there, you know, first, what is the ideology? What. What. What does it look like?
And then what do we know about it? What is it so far? What do we know?
[00:09:00] Speaker B: Right. Well, I published a paper, I believe it was 2008, that was really sort of the first paper that associated Morgellons with. And in that case, I was basically saying with Lyme disease, and I had a population of 144 clinically confirmed Morgellons patients. And by clinically confirmed, meaning that I had personally seen the filaments coming out of their skin. And so.
[00:09:29] Speaker C: And what is the filament? What. What does a filament look like for people that don't know?
[00:09:34] Speaker B: These, um, they're. They're different, actually. There's different kinds. There's different colors. Some are very, very thin. Some can be even as thick as. And I call them. They look like fishing wire because they're translucent and. And thick and very strong, and they're circular. And if you look at one under microscope next to a hair, because a lot of people get confused and they think that hairs are filaments because they could kind of look alike.
But the big difference is these filaments with the hairs, they come to a little fine, fine point. And these filaments more just look usually like kind of a flat end to them, like. But there are different ones. You know, it's hard to describe because there's. There are.
I know patients with this sort of have them all categorized, you know, into the different kinds of filaments that come out. And. And people are different. Like, some people have mostly black and white, but others have red, blue, even orange. Purple is pretty rare. But even that, you know, so who knows what. What's going on here with, with the filaments? But what has been found so far in the research, just by volunteer researchers? Marianne Middleveen and in Canada has donated her time and resources to looking into this because she found it fascinating, you know? And so she has discovered that these filaments are made out of human proteins. They're, you know, of collagen and keratin. So they're not worms as some people think they are. They're not creatures. They don't have.
They're byproducts, basically, of this disease.
They're not contagious agents. And I think a lot of, a lot of patients are afraid that when these filaments fly off of them, that they're going to land on somebody else, and then that person's going to get this. But it doesn't work that way. They're not infectious agents. And in fact, it seems as though this is a disease a lot like AIDS in the sense that it's got to be body fluid to body fluid, so you're not going to catch it by casual contact. And my patients worry about that a lot. You know, they say they're worried to travel on a plane because they're afraid the person sitting next to them might get it from them. Well, the person next to you might very well start kind of going like this, but that's because you have these little fibers, filaments flowing off of you. And they're irritants. It doesn't mean they're coming down with it. You know, that they're, the irritants are in the air for a while. And I've told this many times, but a lot of times with my sickest morgellonist patients when they come in the office and I tend to always give my patients hug. So, you know, I give them a hug and I notice for 15 minutes later, I feel like there's, it's almost like if you're exposed to fiberglass, you know, just something in my eyes and my nose, but then it, then it just calms down and then it's gone. And so, you know, I have never, knock on wood, caught this, and I've been treating these patients for over 20 years, and I never take any special precautions or anything, like I say, usually hug my patients and all that. So I don't have any fear about people catching it in a more of a casual contact kind of a way.
I do think, too, that people who catch it, they are having immune struggles. You know, it's not just everybody that will get this. Everybody who catches it has some sort of immune suppression going on that they may not even know about some chronic infection or they might have toxic exposure like mold exposure, that kind of thing. So what I've seen a lot of times is in a family, sometimes entire families will come down with it. I do believe strongly that that's a common exposure source. Like, you know, they get a flea infestation in the house, and then people will come down with this.
Interesting, too since fleas bred Bartonella. And, you know, there's kind of that thing. But, I mean, again, we don't know yet what causes this. All we know is what we found in the lesions. We have found the borrelia bacteria. We have found a different borrelia than the one that causes Lyme, the one that causes tick borne relapsing fever. We've also found treponema denticola, which is normally found in the teeth. Who knows why those are in the lesions as well?
H. Pylori, which is another surprising finding.
You know, the fact that these bacteria are found in the lesions, nobody knows exactly what that means, because I think some people have been kind of quick to say, to jump on the fact that one of these is causing it. But I don't think we don't have enough evidence to say that at this point. We just know the correlation, correlation wise. I've found in my study, 97% of my morgellons patients have tick borne illness.
There have been two studies, one in California and one in Australia, that have shown that 6% of Lyme patients get morgellons. So it's interesting that both those studies came out with the same number, the same 6%. That seems about right to me, just from, from what I see.
So we don't know whether this is a co infection. We don't know whether having the tick borne infections predisposes somebody to this due to immune suppression or what. But the other thing that I've so consistently correlated with this is the exposure to mold and mold toxicity in the patient.
[00:16:08] Speaker D: Hello, dear listeners. This is Doctor Michael Karlfeldt, your host of integrative Lyme Solutions. Today, I'm excited to share an exclusive opportunity from the Karlfeld center, where we blend healing power of nature with groundbreaking therapies to combat Lyme disease and its associated challenges. At the Karlfold center, we're not just fighting Lyme, we're revolutionizing the way it's treated with cutting edge therapies like photodynamic therapy, full body ozone iv therapy, silver iv's, brain rebalancing, autonomic response testing, laser energetic detoxification, and more. We aim to eradicate Lyme. Our approach is comprehensive, supporting your body's immune system detoxification processes, hormonal balance and mitochondrial health, ensuring a holistic path to recovery. Understanding Lyme disease and its impact is complex, which is why we're offering a free 15 minutes discovery call with one of our Lyme literate naturopathic doctors. This call is your first step towards understanding how we can personalize your healing journey, focusing on you as a whole person, not just your symptoms. Our team, led by myself, doctor Michael Karlthilz, is here to guide you through your recovery with the most advanced diagnostic tools, individualized treatment plans, and supportive therapies designed to restore your health and vitality. Whether you're facing Lyme disease head on or seeking preventative strategies, we're committed to your wellness. Take the first step towards reclaiming your health. Visit
[email protected] or call us at 208-338-8902 to schedule your free discovery call at the Karlfold center. We believe in healing naturally, effectively, and holistically. Thank you for tuning in into integrative lyme solution with Doctor Karlfeld. Remember, true health is not just the absence of disease, it's achieving the abundance of vitality. Let's discover yours together.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: You know, if you're familiar with the Ritchie shoemaker's testing for Hladr types and those, according to his work, 24% of the general population is susceptible to mold toxicity based on genetic factors. So I've tested my Morgellons patients and 100% of them have this Hladr type showing them to be genetically predisposed to get sick in the presence of mold toxins and to not be able to detox very easily from those toxins. So now, again, I want to emphasize that doesn't mean mold causes Morgel. We're just talking about correlations here.
But because it's such a strong immunosuppressant, the mold toxicity, it's just one more thing that sets the person up for this, because I think it's a perfect storm. It's just all these things come together at once.
I feel like probably what's causing this is omnipresent, but it's just the majority of people aren't succumbing to it. You know, just people that are, you know, their immune systems have kind of had it. They're pooped out.
A lot of patients tell me that when they were exposed to it, their husband was too, and he was fine. And, you know, so anyway, still so much. There's more questions than answers when it.
[00:19:43] Speaker C: Comes to this thing, you know, we know that it is not a parasite. We know that it's not some infectious agents. We know that it is a, you're saying kind of like a byproduct. You know, it is like a string. You know, like a filament. You know, it's a strong string, kind of. And it can be any kind of color, and it can show up anywhere in the body, essentially. I mean, I've had patients that are literally kind of in their eye, you know, side of the eye and ear, and, you know, common. It's kind of around the nose and lip, you know, the little crevices of the lips, and.
[00:20:20] Speaker B: Yeah, so quite a lot of hair loss with it, too. And some people, their entire eyebrows are gone and filled with lesions. People have lost either all of their hair or a great part of their hair that seems to kind of come along with the whole thing, too. There's quite a few symptoms, you know, that they tend to have. There's kind of a slimy feeling on the skin. It's a. Some people say a waxy feeling that they describe it different ways, but they feel as though they need to take a shower three or four times a day because of this.
[00:20:56] Speaker C: So with this, then we.
There is like, you're talking about some kind of immune suppression. Obviously, mold will cause immune suppression, Lyme will cause immune suppression. And so it seems more that you are, when the immune system is down or something in your system, and that it's not function appropriately. This, this symptomology, you know, appears, even though it's not an infection, it may be a correlation with an infection.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: I think there's, I believe probably is an infection of some kind.
[00:21:34] Speaker C: You believe that it is an infection?
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Well, I think what's happening is the infection is causing the DNA of the cells to behave inappropriately. So do the wrong thing in the wrong place at the wrong time. I mean, certain cells are supposed to be producing keratin, but random cells in the middle of your arm are not supposed to be producing keratin.
Seems to be that something. This has just always been sort of my framework for thinking about it. And, I mean, I could be dead wrong here, but I've always just thought in terms of it being an infection of some kind.
Pardon me?
[00:22:16] Speaker C: No, I'm just saying that some. Somebody needs to have some conclusion. Oh, wait a minute.
So you're. You're.
[00:22:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it just seems like because of the fact that these are the body's own proteins that are coming out, so it would seem that the body has somehow gotten confused as to what's going on. It just seems like some sort of infection. And actually, you said that I mentioned that it wasn't parasitic. Now, I meant to say it wasn't an ectoparasite and it wasn't a helminth or worm, but I think there's probably a very good chance that it's a unicellular parasite of some kind that's causing this infection.
But, you know, that's basically Lyme. Is that, you know, borrelia, is that so?
[00:23:11] Speaker C: And hash 39.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: It's hard to know.
[00:23:14] Speaker C: Has anyone identified any kind of infectious agents that may be the one that's causing these filaments to be produced?
[00:23:27] Speaker B: Well, this is the thing.
We've correlated.
We don't have any idea what's causing it. But we found that a lot of these people have Lyme disease and bartonella, and we've found infections in the lesions that many of the patients have, the spontaneously appearing, slow healing lesions that look as though the skin has been excoriated by severe scratching. And yet, according to patients, these lesions just appear spontaneously like that.
We've got the bacteria that we found in the body through blood testing associated with these patients, as well as the bacteria that have been found in the lesions. But there's no more studies that can tell us about causation because. Because, frankly, the thing we don't have is money. We don't have money to research this. And the major research funders like the NIH told us they would not give us money because they don't fund diseases that don't exist. So, you know, that's how crazy that is.
So, yeah, still. So there's way more that we don't know than we do know.
But it's been interesting, the fact that so many of these patients do have tick borne infections. I call them tick borne infections, but these infections, some of them can be gotten by other means, too. The Bartonella can flea bites and cat scratches. And we've seen people get Lyme from horseflies, for example. We're not exactly sure how many biting vectors may be giving people these different infections.
[00:25:18] Speaker C: No, no.
[00:25:19] Speaker B: But with the antibiotics, the problem is, insurance companies kind of go crazy over this and pharmacies, and because we're treating with antibiotics something that we don't know or understand, my feeling has always been that it's helping them, and these people are miserable and suicidal, and many have committed suicide.
And so if the antibiotics are helping them, I mean, what is so awful about giving it to them?
People, sometimes they treat it like. Like I'm giving them heroin or something, and they're antibiotics, you know, they're FDA approved antibiotics. It's just, I'm using them, you know, for different purposes than what they were intended. But people get their lives back, and people who were on the verge of suicide, you know, come back to life and can enjoy life again. So to me, that's worth any risk that might be associated with antibiotics, although I see the risk to be very low.
People are often diagnosed with some sort of autoimmune infection that's very, very common. These patients are diagnosed with an autoimmune condition, put on an immunosuppressant, which, in my view, is a lot more of a negative, negative sequelae from immune suppression than from an antibiotic. So, anyway, that's kind of been my idea about it. But those of us who do things that are on the fringes, we're the ones that always get in trouble. But I feel so bad for these people because they're the most miserable group of people.
You've seen them, too. So, you know, I mean, I always say that back when I just treated Lyme and co infections, I mean, that stuff's a walk in the park compared to this. The morgellons is just, whoa. Whole other level, and I don't know how these people survive.
It's really awful. Just to add insult to injury, to be suffering so terribly, and then to have everybody tell you you're crazy and you don't have anything. Yeah, I've had patients lose their families, lose their job, lose their spouse, lose everything, just because people don't believe them.
It's a really, really sad situation.
[00:28:09] Speaker C: Well, because, yeah, the patients are.
[00:28:12] Speaker B: I think you've seen that, too.
[00:28:14] Speaker C: Yeah. Patients are continually looking for that affirmation, so they're bringing these little samples to doctors. Please look at under the microscope and please, can you do the test, DNA test on it, see what it is? And so it becomes this continual quest that the family usually can go along with the quest for a little bit, but then when it's been going on for six months, maybe a year, all of a sudden it's just becoming too much and they can't handle it anymore.
[00:28:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And then they start to think that their loved one really is crazy, you know, and a certain extent, you know, the disease drives you crazy. I mean, it would drive me crazy. I think it would drive anybody crazy. I mean, it's just an awful, awful situation. I mean, some of it may even be due to the infection itself. As we have seen, so many of these infections do cause certain mental disorders. So there's probably that going on as well as just situational.
You know, how. How awful is it to have something that no one will even admit that you have?
[00:29:31] Speaker C: You know, and in addition to kind of seeing the filaments coming out that you continually. It's that kind of the crawly feeling. So that fiscal sensation that makes it hard to relax and to focus, to sleep. Yeah. So you have that continual reminder that there's something there that's going on. And that is what drives you then to try to pick these things out, to stop that creepy crawly feeling that.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: You have, because that feeling is caused. There's difference. And I'm always telling my Lyme patients have these formication parathesia, where they feel like a bug is crawling up their arm and they look and there's nothing there. And that's a neuropathy.
But with morgellons patients, the difference is they feel the crawling, they feel the biting, they feel the stinging. It's being caused by something. It's being caused by these filaments working their way through the skin. Sometimes they grow sideways under the skin, so that's when they feel something moving there. And that's why they very often think that it's some sort of an alive creature, because they feel the movement. And the movement is that as it grows under the skin or coming through the skin. Oh, the sun all of a sudden came out here. Sorry, I'm going to move over a little bit.
But I did. There was something you said a moment ago. I was going to.
[00:31:06] Speaker C: Yeah, because, I mean, it's like I mentioned it, it's hard for them to be able to relax. Yeah. Because you have that sensation continually and then you can't sleep. And, I mean, we know that just, you know, not being able to sleep, you know, it drives you crazy just by itself. And, you know, so it's exactly, exactly.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: There are just so many odd symptoms with this. And cosmetically, it's very upsetting, too, because a lot of my patients tend to have most of the problems on their face and their head, so it's not like they can really hide it. Some patients are lucky enough to have it on their arms and legs and can be covered up when they go to work. But if you're working where you're around the public and you have big, fat, awful lesions that you're trying to cover up on your face all the time, I mean, that's just.
That's just horrendous. I mean, what are you going to do? People often do lose their job because of that. So the best thing that happened, in a way, to my patients is the pandemic. And working from home, a lot of people have now been able to work from home, and it's been a lifesaver, you know, for a lot of these patients that are chronically ill. So I'm sure you found that to be true, too.
[00:32:30] Speaker C: And so what does the.
So you're talking about these different antibiotics and they do better. You treat them as it was Bartonella, that kind of concoction. So how do you see the progression as you're treating them?
What length of time? How are the symptoms diminishing? And you get them to a point where they're symptom free just for people out there to be able to have hope? Yeah.
[00:33:00] Speaker B: Well, you know, first of all, you have to understand, there is hope. You will get better if you're treated. The amount of better is what I can't tell you. It's different for everyone, but you will get better for sure. And the timeline, I can't tell you either, because that's highly variable, too. It depends a lot, first of all, on your age, because the younger person is, the more robust their immune system is. So my 20 year olds can usually do better than my 60 year olds. So there's that. There's how long you've had it. Usually when people have their symptoms of Morgellons have started within the previous year, have a lot better luck with them than the ones who come to me. And they've had it for 20 years, you know, so. And then there are just people who, for who knows why, they just respond to treatment better. They just sort of magically respond. And I've had people even be, after one month of antibiotics, be 80% better. But then I have other people that don't have any improvement whatsoever till they've been on antibiotics for six to eight months. So it's. It's all over the place. And I think that's one of the things that's hardest I hate about this, is I can't give the patients a timeline, which I know would really help them psychologically, even if I said, look, it's going to take two years, I promise you. At least they'd know and they'd be all set for it and everything. But I just don't know because everyone is so different. But usually once we get started with the treatment, it's a little easier to tell what kind of responder the person's going to be, so you can get a little better idea of how long it's going to take. But one thing I do tell them all is that bank on a year, because it's not going to be less than a year. And it's usually. It's usually more, I'd say quite a few of them. It's about two and a half years of treatment, but during that time, you know, there's this gradual improvement and, you know, it's, it's also, it's just psychologically, you feel so much better when you feel like you're being heard and you're being. You're working towards something, you're working toward getting better versus just sort of feeling like there's never going to be hope. Nothing's going to ever help you.
So I think people really need to have hope, and I just. I'm happy to. I can't take on all the patients because they're just too many. But one thing I can do is if you have a doctor who's open minded enough to believe you and see what's going on, if that doctor writes me an email, I'm happy to provide a treatment guideline, something that I've written up for other doctors. I can't provide these to a patient. I need to give them straight to a provider who has prescriptive authority.
But have your doctors, I've already helped so many doctors all over the world treat this. And, you know, it's, it just every, every patient is a whole new thing. It's just, you know, it's a challenge. It's very interesting work for me because it's like every patient is, it's new, you know, you're not sure how this is, how it's going to go and what's going to work, and you just kind of get into this experimental mode together and, you know, then you can get better. You can get better, but it's hard to find someone who will help you. I realize that mostly because most providers are very concerned about their license. You know, I mean, let's just get right down to the reality of it. It's, you know, doing unusual things, giving antibiotics for unusual illnesses, not even understood or recognized illnesses, puts someone at risk for their license.
That's why most people who do this don't take insurance. And that's hard on patients, too. But they don't take insurance because often it's the insurance companies that get us in trouble because they don't like what we're doing because of course, it's costing them money.
Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm running on at the mouth all the time. I should let you ask me a question.
[00:37:29] Speaker C: No, it's perfect.
And these are the challenges that they all face. I wanted to just kind of get back, I wanted kind of finishing touch. I want to hear the story of your daughter a little bit.
How did you figure out that it was Lyme, and how did you correct it, and how is she doing now?
[00:37:54] Speaker B: My daughter got very sick when she was 16.
She's 40 now.
So when she was 16, she was a very top, top student, super bright girl. And she started. I started getting complaints from her teachers that she was falling asleep in cats class, not turning her assignments in. And then, you know, we. This was so unlike her. And so we thought, well, maybe she's depressed. You know, I was as bad as ever. Any other body else with a size. Maybe she's depressed. So we took her to a therapist, you know, and. And we started on antidepressants, and none of that helped, you know, because she wasn't. A lot of teenagers are not, as you probably noticed, are not very forward in talking about their specific symptoms.
Being in denial is a state they really enjoy being in. And so it was hard for me to get the symptoms out of her. But once I realized she had far more than fatigue and depression, I mean, she had severe joint pain and all these other symptoms, that's when I started to suspect it, because I'd already started seeing it some. A little bit. And, yeah, she was quite sick and missed all of high school and just barely got to graduate from high school. And, you know, it's been a struggle. It's been a struggle for a lot of years since then because she got better, and she was able to do a lot of things. And she's getting an MBA now, and she's, you know, she's led a really good life, but she's fragile and she has to watch it, and she. She knows she is. And if she overdoes it, she. She knows the things she can't do, the food she can't eat, you know, the things she can't do. And as long as she stays with all of that, then she does pretty well. And that's. That's the way it is for so many people that get well. They just have to learn how to live in a way that. To keep their infections at bay.
[00:40:08] Speaker C: And what made you look at Lyme disease with her?
[00:40:12] Speaker B: Well, it was only because I kind of was already there with the Lyme.
I just started looking at it because I used to. For a long time, I was very interested in chronic fatigue syndrome, and I used to treat that a lot, and people would come to me for chronic fatigue syndrome. And, of course, as you know, back, I mean, there isn't a whole lot you can do for that. I mean, you just sort of help them feel better, you know, but, and then I started my colleague, doctor Bill Harvey in Houston. He and I both used to go to the crying fatigue syndrome conferences. And then one day he just told, wrote me and he said, guess what, ginger, you know what? A lot of those people, I think they have Lyme disease. He said, I just came back from a Lyme conference. Those are the same symptoms these patients have. And so then we both just started looking at all our chronic fatigue patients and kind of just went from chronic fatigue right into Lyme and co infections, you know, so that's, that's how I got there. But I never thought for a million years I'd be doing what I'm doing, just because I used to always say, back when I was in training, I said, I'll tell you, the one thing I do not ever, ever want to do is chronic illness.
So be carefully you wish for. But I, yeah, I just always thought I didn't want to do chronic illness. But, you know, I think, you know, when you have that personal connection with it, it makes all the difference. And that's often what you see, right. You know, a lot of the people, a lot of my colleagues have gotten into this because of a themselves or one of their loved ones was very, very ill with it.
[00:41:56] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I agree. Well, Doctor Sabley, this has been phenomenal and you're doing such amazing work.
This is really kind of bringing hope to the hopeless and bringing sanity to the people. They feel they're going insane.
[00:42:14] Speaker B: You're not going crazy. You really got a real thing. It can be treated. And you just, if you can find some nice doctor who will email me and I'll help him, I'll help him, you know, treat you, I will be happy to do it. There's no charge for that. You know, just, I will be happy to do that. I just can't take on all the patients myself.
[00:42:36] Speaker C: That's very kind of you and that's, yeah, it's very reassuring for patients. So thank you so much. And where can people get your books?
[00:42:45] Speaker B: And how did Amazon, it's just called morgellons, the legitimization of a disease. And. Yeah, so we're still, everything in there is pretty much what, what we know still. But explain, it'll explain it a little better than I was able to hear, as far as, you know, cut what we know so far.
[00:43:06] Speaker C: Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, thank you so much. This was wonderful.
[00:43:12] Speaker B: Thank you. Very nice to talk to you.
[00:43:14] Speaker C: Likewise.
[00:43:15] Speaker B: Appreciate it.
[00:43:23] Speaker A: The information, this podcast is for educational purposes only. And it's not designed to diagnose or treat any disease. I hope this podcast impacted you as it did me. Please subscribe so that you can be notified when new episodes are released. There are some excellent shows coming up that you do not want to miss. If you're enjoying these podcasts, please take a moment to write a review and please don't keep this information to yourself. Share them with your family and friends. You never know what piece of information that will transform their lives. For past episodes and powerful information on how to conquer lime, go to integrative limesolutions.com and an additional powerful resource source, lymestream.com. for Lyme support and group discussions, join Lyme Conquerors mentoring Lyme warriors on Facebook. If you'd like to know more about the cutting edge integrative Lyme therapies MyCenter offers, please visit thecarlfeldcenter.com. thank you for spending this time with us, and I hope to see you at our next episode of Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Karlfeldt.
