[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Karl Felt.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: I am so excited about the show.
[00:00:07] Speaker A: That we have ahead of us. We have some phenomenal information that could save lives. I am Doctor Michael Karlfeld, and with me, I have my co host, Tanya Hobo.
You're gonna need to tune in to.
[00:00:21] Speaker C: What'S going on today.
[00:00:23] Speaker D: The information is jam packed, so, yeah, don't step away.
[00:00:29] Speaker E: So excited. Let's go ahead and get this started.
Hey, listeners, this is Tanya, the co host of Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Carl Felt. We've got some exciting news to share with you over the next few weeks, you will notice some changes, and let me just say, starting May 1 1st, be sure to go over and follow me on my very own brand new podcast, Lyme and beyond with Tanya. Also, be sure to stay here and follow your favorite Doctor K. Well, Doctor.
[00:01:07] Speaker C: Tom Moorcroft, it's such a pleasure and honor to have you on the segment of integrative Lyme solution. Your dear friend and your amazing human being. And I've been blessed to, to know you and get to hear a lot of your wisdom. So thank you for being with me today.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Yeah, well, thanks so much. I'm so excited to be here. I mean, this is such a great thing you're doing. And, you know, to be a part of this and share some knowledge, I can help some people get better and alleviate some sufferings, always for it. So thanks so much for having me.
[00:01:38] Speaker C: So, tell me a little bit about your story. We're going to do a two parter. Yeah, so this first. This first episode is going to be kind of your story. And then for people that are listening, the next episode is going to be a lot because you work with Lyme patients and you also train Lyme doctors and how to go about doing it. You've hosted Lyme summits. I mean, Lyme has been your deal.
But this segment I wanted to go through more so people get to know your story, you know, where all of this began. So do you mind kind of sharing as to when Lyme stepped into your life and what did that look like?
[00:02:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I really appreciate it, too, because I think that one of the things, as a physician, a lot of us, you know, I know, like, people like yourself and myself and the people we hang out with, we get that our patients are actual people who have real lives and, you know, they were doing something before Lyme or some other disease got in their way.
And for me, it was really like, I just always follow my heart, you know, and if I can. If I can kind of start with. What I'll probably close with is I would really love for everybody listening to everything that we always do, to just follow their passion and live their dreams and that way, because in that way, the world would be such a more loving, wonderful place to be. You know, there's so many amazing things out here. And so along those lines, I was, you know, I just love playing outside. I always wanted to be outside. So I went to the University of Vermont for my undergrad. I was studying landscape ecology and wildlife management. And I wanted to, like, save the wolves and the black footed ferrets. And I'm a weirdo. I like snakes. And I think that we should respect them and they should respect our spot. So this is what I wanted to do, you know, excuse me. And you. You know what was so interesting, Michael, is I got to school and I started taking all these cool classes and I learned a bunch. But the more I learned, the more I realized we just sat around learning more and talking and doing a study and then talking and then learning more and talking and we weren't doing anything. So I said, wait a second. The planet needs to be like people stoked about it, right? I mean, I wanted to, like, I'm like, I love playing outside and I want it to be there for my child and their children and future generations. I'm like, I was like, well, we're talking. All these adults are talking, but we're not doing much.
If I hang out with people who would take action, who would action takers be? I was like, kids. If I got kids stoked about the environment, they would go take care of it and we'd have a chance of making a bigger change. And they probably would get their parents off the couch and everything else. So then I said, hey, you know what? I'm going to go. And I took an Americorps internship at this place called the Institute of Ecosystem Studies in Millbrook, New York. It's now called the Cary Institute, but it basically was started by this guy, Gene Likens, who discovered acid rain. So I was like, super geeking out. They're doing great research, but they also had this educational arm where I could teach kids. So I'm there and I'm teaching them about. We were doing maple sugaring, we're teaching about the watershed, and we're talking about the wetlands. We're doing creek stuff and playing with salamanders and fish, like everything. And I was having a blast. And, you know, and then like, one day my boss comes up to me. And she like, tom. Tom, like, what? What's going on? She's like, you've been sitting here staring at this computer screen, not moving for the past at least an hour. Cause when I left you, this cursor was right there, and it's still right there. And then she's like, what the hell's wrong with you? I was like. And I looked down, and I had actually drooled all over myself.
And I was like, there's something. And I was 23, and I was like, you know, when I look back, I was like, you know, I was getting kind of tired. I was kind of clearly foggy, and everything was hurting, but I just, you know, whatever. You're 23. You just keep on going. And then I scheduled an appointment to go see my parents doctor, because, like, you know, the boss is like, you're either fired or you have a medical problem, so go see the doctor. And so I'm on my way there, and, like, I realized I looked down, like, the morning of my appointment, and I've got this rash that had started that I didn't even notice, but it was coming over my shoulder, and it literally ended up encompassing about a fifth of my body, part of my left arm, my whole trunk, all the way down around my leg, down to my left knee, which is very weird. But I walk into the guys office, and I'm like, I've got joint pain, brain fog, fatigue, muscles hurt, and then I got this weird ass rash. And he goes, I got it. You've got classic Lyme disease. Here's your doxycycline intent. Take it for ten days, and you'll be better. And I was like, this is great. You know, I'll be good to go in ten days. Like, so I took the stuff, mind you, I'm 23, and literally, all of a sudden, my body hurts like it's never hurt before. I'm on the floor, and for four days, I'm in my parents basement on the floor. I've got alternating sweats and chills. It's July, mind you. And I'm, like, freezing my butt off half the day. And then the other part of the day, I'm drenched in sweat. I'm like, what is going on? But, you know, four or five days later, I started feeling a bit better. Ten days later, it's good. But then, like. And then the rest of this kind of is more of a retrospective, because over the next, like, eight years, I started having, like, the joint pain, the brain fog, and the fatigue creep back in slowly. But slightly. So I go to the doctor, and they're like, hey, I think you've got, you know, major depression like your dad. I'm like, wait, I have joint pain. My brain doesn't work, and. And I'm tired. Like, yeah, but that's like depression. I go, but I've never been depressed, and I haven't had a reason to be depressed. So I was like, whatever. I took the meds. They just gave me a bunch of side effects. They didn't work. And then they take me off that, and they go. And then I'm getting mad at them because, like, here it is. Like, a couple years into this, they're still telling me I've got depression, but none of the meds work. So they're like. And I'm like, pissed off at them. Cause they don't have an answer.
And they go, I know you've got the bipolar. You've got the type two, like, all the good doctors and the lawyers, you know, the ones that just. That, you know, they use it for their benefit. I'm like, okay, this is asinine. But I was just starting medical school. I didn't know what was going on, so I was like, I trusted the system, and I went on the meds, and then I just had all these side effects and they didn't work. And then they're like, oh, you don't have that?
But it's on my medical record. So years later, I had to go back and have them expunge this bipolar. Like, this is ridiculous. Anybody knows me knows that I might be passionate, but I'm certainly not big bowler.
And then I go. And they're like, oh, you got adHd? I'm like, no kidding. Thanks for telling me something my parents and I didn't know my whole life. That's my superpower. We'll leave that one alone. But I tried the meds, and they didn't work. I'm like a cup of coffee in the morning and give me some exercise. I'm good. And so it's like six years into this thing where I'm like, I'm just, like, dying. And I remember, I go to the doctor, and I go, I've got joint pain, brain fog, fatigue and muscle pain. And he goes, oh, I know exactly what you have. And I'm like, oh, thank God I can get better, finally. And he goes, you've got fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. And I basically kind of gave him the bird because I'm like, dude, I walked in, told you had joint pain, brain fog, fatigue and muscle pain. And you told me that I had something that is a label for joint pain. You know, instead of saying all of them, I just say fibromyalgia.
But you give me. But yet you didn't tell me what was wrong, which means I have no way to get better. And so I went home and I just. It's funny, I'm staring at the wall again. So before it's a computer screen, now it's this wall in this apartment. And I remember really clearly going, this is horrible. The medical system that I'm now in the middle of becoming one of is failing me miserably. But I just know that I remember looking over here and I go, that's the path I'm on. And if I keep going down that path, it's not going to go anywhere. I said, the path I want to be on is that one where I have a future. I just got married. We wanted to have a kid. We wanted, you know, I love my dogs. I love playing Frisbee. I love skiing, I love hiking. I love mountain biking. I'm like, I want to be back outside because I've lost what I thought. Like, my whole identity was around outside.
And, you know, I could do a little, but not what I used to. So I just said, well, I know what happens if I go that way, which is the same thing that I've had for the last six. At this point, it was six years into it.
I said, why don't I try that one? And so I decided that I was going to hedge my bets on my future, that I didn't know how I was going to get to because no one could. I didn't know about functional medicine at the time, had never been introduced to it. But within a couple of days, somebody handed me a yoga DVD and I was like, oh, this is sucky, because yoga hurts. I tried it in college. I'm not flexible. But the guy who's teaching it on the DVD said, you just, it's a 90 minutes practice. You do it six days a week. You do it, you know, and you take Saturday off and you take the noon, the full moon off, and that's so you don't get addicted to it and you respect your interrelationship with the planets and the, and our planet and mother Nature. I said, well, that's up my alley. But I could only literally do about 90 seconds of the moves. And then I was done. And I'm like, but I'm so he said, it's yoga. Is movement on your breath. So your litmus test is that you're breathing fully, and if you can breathe fully, you can keep going. If you can't, you just breathe.
And I was like, oh, so this sucks. Because now I did 90 seconds of activity, and I've got another 88 and a half minutes of breathing to do. But basically, that's what I did. I said, I am. So they're not giving me any help, and I'm hedging my bets on me. So I just did it. And I just was breathing and breathing and yoga and yoga. And, like, six months in, I could almost make it in 45 minutes or so. But I started to actually feel a bit better. And it was the first time in my life, despite all this activity and all these other things I did, that I was actually able to calm my nervous system to the point where I could do what other people called meditation or just take a moment and reflect. And it was really an interesting thing, because over the next two years, I got to the point where I was doing an hour and a half a day, six days a week, except on the new and the full moon. And I would say that over that next two years, I got about 70% better. And what happened was I listened to my body and I followed my breath. And then at the end of that, I would just. All of a sudden, my body was rejecting processed foods. It wasn't eating pasta and pizza. It didn't want Coca Cola anymore because these were food groups when I grew up, or at least where I grew up. So in the end, I was, like, 70% better. And then I had an opportunity to change at the last minute, one of my medical school rotations, so that it could be about 90 minutes closer to home so I could commute rather than have to leave my wife for a month. I was like, done, I'll take that one.
And of course, just like the yoga DVD, I made a choice to focus on me, and the DVD that changed my life came into my life. Then I had this moment where it's like, oh, should I really change? And I did. I walk into their office, and every single person sounds like me.
And the first time in eight years, I felt like there was hope. I mean, clearly the last two years, something had happened. Cause I was getting better. But it was like I had my community. There were other people like me. It wasn't all in my head. I wasn't crazy. There were other people like me. And I said, what do these people have? And they're like, well, they have. Lyme and Babesia and all this. So, eight years from when I got sick, they drew my blood. I spent $1,800 that I didn't have at the time, but I got the answer. I had Lyme and that shakes and sweats and all that crap that I had was babesia that they had never diagnosed, which kind of scared me. Cause babesia can kill you acutely. Clearly it didn't, so. But, you know, eight years later, I'd Lyme Babesia, and then they helped me finish the 30% over the next four and a half years. So twelve and a half years later got all better, and it's been about 13 years since I've had a symptom of Lyme. So you actually can get better, but you have to do the hard work yourself first, and then rely on your friends who actually know what's going on for the rest. So that's the long and the short of it, I think.
[00:14:08] Speaker C: I love it. I love it.
[00:14:10] Speaker D: Hello, dear listeners, this is doctor Michael Karlfeldt, your host of integrative Lyme Solutions. Today I'm excited to share an exclusive opportunity from the Karlfeld center, where we blend healing power of nature with groundbreaking therapies to combat Lyme disease and its associated challenges. At the Karfeld center were not just fighting Lyme, were revolutionizing the way its treated. With cutting edge therapies like photodynamic therapy, full body ozone IV therapy, Silver IV's, brain rebalancing, autonomic response testing, laser energetic detoxification, and more, we aim to eradicate Lyme. Our approach is comprehensive, supporting your body's immune system, detoxification processes, hormonal balance, and mitochondrial health, ensuring a holistic path to recovery. Understanding Lyme disease and its impact is complex, which is why we're offering a free 15 minutes discovery call with one of our Lyme literate naturopathic doctors. This call is your first step towards understanding how we can personalize your healing journey, focusing on you as a whole person, not just your symptoms. Our team, led by myself, Doctor Michael Karlfilz, is here to guide you through your recovery with the most advanced diagnostic tools, individualized treatment plans, and supportive therapies designed to restore your health and vitality. Whether you're facing Lyme disease head on or seeking preventative strategies, we're committed to your wellness. Take the first step towards reclaiming your health. Visit
[email protected] or call us at 208-338-8902 to schedule your free discovery call at the Karfeld center we believe in healing naturally, effectively, and holistically. Thank you for tuning in into integrative Lyme solution with Doctor Karlfeld. Remember, true health is not just the absence of disease, it's achieving the abundance of vitality. Let's discover yours together.
[00:16:11] Speaker C: Well, so let me kind of backtrack and ask a few questions. So, one thing I'm really curious, what made you go into medical field? I mean, here you're sick, not feeling horrible, and they keep prescribing meds. That's not working, and so why choose that field?
[00:16:31] Speaker B: Well, it's kind of. It's kind of coincidental, right? But not really, obviously. I remember as a kid, there was a tv show where the shit was hitting the fan in the ER. Everybody's in the hallway, they're lined up out the door, 75, you know, like Hollywood makes it. But this guy walks in and he's the doctor, and he was just cool, and he just calm. He was calmly said, we'll do this, we'll do this, we'll do that. And he remained calm under pressure.
And then things were better. And I always liked in emergency situations, I was just always impressed by people who are calm. And I tended to anything I saw never really bothered me. So I was like, that's cool. And I just didn't even think of it until later on. And I was actually in college right before I graduated and took this job that changed my life.
And I was on a hiking trip with the wilderness society and these guys, like, we had extra people come, and I kind of said, okay, you got, you know, we split up our groups, and I went with these people that I didn't know, but they were reportedly friends of the other people, and they knew what they were doing. I was like, there are a couple of couples in the other group. I'm like, I'll let you guys hang out, and we'll go this way. And it turns out that they were asses, basically. We went on this, like, quarter mile hike to an overlook before we left. It was more like 4 miles, and we didn't take anything because they said it was short. So I got very dehydrated, and I got lost, and then they left me, and then. But they're the leadership guys. They knew what was going on, right? So I come back and it's like hours and hours later, I'm drinking out of a stream, which I know you could have, giardia, but I'm like, I can't even see straight, you know? And so I get back and I'm like, start walking down the hill. And I'm like, man, I'm so exhausted. My backpack's so heavy. My body's so heavy. I'm dying. I get to the bottom. My knees are killing me. I can't walk anymore. I'm like, what is going on? And we get back, and I pull my backpack out of my buddy's car. And turns out these guys, when I was lost with dehydration, filled it with rocks because they thought I was playing a joke on them. And they didn't even tell me on the way down as I'm walking down, like, falling over. And I was like, so at that moment, I was just like, this is wrong. Like, I love playing outside, but clearly I didn't know enough to be prepared to protect myself.
But that's not leadership. That's not leadership. So I just searched, and I said, how do people learn this? And I did wilderness first aid, where they focused on prevention, which I thought would be a good idea. And then the next thing, I was like, oh, why don't I? You know, then if there's a problem, it's different if you're close to a hospital versus not. I was like, that made sense. I really enjoyed this three day weekend because it's so empowering. So then I took a wilderness first responder course. I was like, well, that's really cool, but, like, I want to do more, you know? And then I was like, well, there's a wilderness EMT. And then I got my wilderness EMT, but I had no experience, because how often do you practice, you know, emergency work in the middle of the woods when you're hours away from a hospital? So I was like, oh, I want to get experience so that if I ever need to use it, I can help somebody for real. So I took a volunteer position, and I took the volunteer position on the ambulance right at the time, or just around the time I was getting Lyme disease. But I just really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed helping people in the emergency situation. Like, you know, I was like, ice. Like, my heart rate's 50 and my blood pressure stays the same, so my brain, I function well under pressure. So I was like, well, let's. And then I was like, I need more experience. Let me go work in the ER. And I worked one shift in the ER, and I was like, oh, I'm doing this.
So that's kind of the start of medicine. But it's always been this balance between cooling, calm under pressure and emergency situations, because I love procedures, I love the emergency aspect. But the problem with the emergency aspect is most of what we see in modern medicine is preventable, or at least minimizable. And if I was, I almost went into critical care because I just, you know, but I'm like, but am I really going to make a big difference outside that 72 hours?
And I was like, not really. I mean, I'm good at that. I could go and, you know, I mean, but so are many people. But what I really had a passion for is how can we help people get so healthy that they have a great life? And then, like, my grandmother, who kind of got a little tired when she was 89, 90, and then slowed down for a year or two, then she just kind of, like, was fine and died overnight in her sleep. Like, how can we compress that morbidity and that time of suffering and really optimize and maximize your sharing of your passion and your enjoyment of life? Because when I enjoy my life, I can share with you, and then you can share it with your friends, and we can all share with each other, and we make the world a better place. And we're helping people be healthier by simple things. Like, the things that help us be healthier are so much simpler than people think. And the other part, too, that I didn't like about the conventional system was so much of it was, the surgeon can help you, the pill can help you. And we're just talking before we started, like, I'm visiting my mom right now because she got put in the hospital, because she got super weak and dehydrated from a new medicine, but they were treating some, like, swelling in her legs, but it wasn't her problem. And they, you know, and it was like, it's just putting the blinders on. I'm not saying they shouldn't have done something. It's just, you know, like, let's start treating people like Marianne or Michael or Tom, rather than the swelling in the legs. And the person with Parkinson, you know, that's what really got me motivated to look outside of that. And how can we empower people to take back as much control over their own health as they can and then use the medical system as a tool to help them when they need it? Because the medical system is great advances, but it's just like, there's so many little things that you can do with your diet and your breathing and your sleep and your mindset and your heart set and all these little simple things. So I got really interested in that because that was what got me more than 70% of the way to the finish line was stuff that I did. And if we can take the placebo that everybody says is about 33% of medicine and make that 70 or 80%, that'll be great. There's still plenty of people on the planet. There's plenty of sick people. But, you know, so that's. That's what really got me going.
[00:23:20] Speaker C: Yes. I mean, it's interesting how you're. Yeah, here you have your own journey. You're talking about medical doctors and the issue that they are just, they're seeing the symptom, and here they're just, here's a pill, here's something we can cut out or here. And instead of looking at the individual as a whole and then treating the individual with what's going on there, instead of here's somebody coming with depression or bipolar or. I know what you got. You got fibromyalgia, which I always, just, like, you always laugh at that term because it means nothing. Or people come in and they say, oh, my doctor said that I have arthritis. Well, duh. I mean, your joints are swollen, so it just literally just means that your joints are inflamed. So it really, all these terms, but people feel good about that. Now I have a label, and now I think that the doctor knows what to do just because they gave me a label.
But it's the same with Lyme. I mean, they gave you doxy for ten days, and thinking that now you're going to be all fine. But, I mean, ten days went by, and here you are seven years or six years later and still struggling.
[00:24:37] Speaker B: Right. Well, you know, it's really interesting, I think you point out something that I'm very thankful for. The only label I ever really got that stuck was that fibromyalgia label. And I knew at this point, I was a third year in medical school, so I was like, yeah, that's, no, that's a label. That's not a diagnosis. That's a grab bag lay. But it was really clear. It wasn't like, the thing for me is I always say I'm so thankful I never had a label that I believed in, whether it was just a description of symptoms or Lyme disease as an actual diagnosis, because I just said, I'm doubling down on me because no one else knows what's going on. Because if I had a label that I believed in, a lot of people, like, I'm a limey, I'm a moldy. I'm like, please stop talking that way, because you're telling your body that you are going to remain sick if you are to keep this identity. To say, I'm a person who happens to have run into Lyme disease, or, I saw some mold and it's making me sick right now, but not forever, but it's like when we start talking about part of the label gives us a community, one of the things that I think that was. So as a patient, even though I was 70 plus percent better, I had still been suffering at this point for eight years. When I finally got a diagnosis, I felt good knowing that there were other people like me. But the thing was, I never associated with being a limey. I just knew I had something, and there are other people like me, which is a completely different thing. So if I'm joining a Lyme community of people who have Lyme disease and are never going to get better, guess what? That's a self fulfilling prophecy. But if I just say, hey, look, there's other people like me, they're getting better, they're at different levels.
I'm, in fact, better than a lot of these people. But it just felt good to know that I wasn't making this shit up in my head.
So, to me, it's like, the diagnosis is really critical, but the attachment to the diagnosis should be left alone, and the label, get rid of it. I'm just like, I'm Tom. And a lot of people even will say, hey, this is Doctor Moorcroft. He's a Lyme expert, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they introduce me and I get up there and I go, hey, I'm doctor Tom.
I'm going to correct one thing. I'm not a Lyme expert.
I am a physician who's trained to help find out what's wrong with you and help you get better. I do not care what's wrong with you. I just need to know what it is so I can help you get better. But I'm not attached to this. And so, based upon my experience and where I practice and what I've done, I've developed an expertise in Lyme and other tick borne infections. But I'm not an expert in Lyme because that suggests that I go like this and I put my blinders on, which then prevent you from fully healing, potentially. So I've had people come up to see me from all kinds of different states. I remember when my practices in Connecticut, I had somebody come up from Florida. They had joint pain, brain fog, and fatigue.
I know what that is. It's either Lyme or fibromyalgia, right? So he walks in. He said, hey, I talked to my doctor, and I told him that my wife thinks I have Lyme. And he's like, well, they don't have Lyme in Florida, so you don't have it. Let me do this basic test. And I did it, and it was negative. So he told me I don't have anything wrong with me. It's just all in my head. And I said, all right, so what's going on? And we did the comprehensive thing, but essentially, joint pain, brain fog, fatigue. And I was like, all right, cool, let's do an actual full medical workup, because I'm a physician who has an expertise, but I'm not an expert in anything. And we found out that his thyroid stimulating hormone, his TSH, was 97.
For anybody who doesn't know, it's supposed to be at least where the lab that I got it done at was 0.4 to 4.5. So if he's at 97, he's profoundly hypothyroid. His thyroid's not really working well. What are some of the symptoms of hypothyroidism? Joint pain, brain fog, and fatigue. I put him on some thyroid. Two months later, he was completely symptom free. So, again, part of what felt so good to me, Michael, about, like, getting in that practice, was that there were. It was a validation of how I experienced my life. And I think that's one of the challenges as patients. So many people, whether it's lime or mold or any other thing, is when the system can't just say, I know you're suffering, I'm here to help you, your symptoms are real. It may not. The hardest thing for me as a practitioner now is because I understand what it feels like to be invalidated or disenfranchised or what we're now talking about gaslit by the medical community. I get it. But the thing that I struggle with, and I'd really recommend a lot of people with Lyme think about is if you thought you had cancer.
In fact, a great example is a friend of mine. His husband had cancer, got treated, and he was cleared for a couple of years. They thought it came back.
They went to the doctor, they did all the testing, and they sat down and the doctor goes, I'm so happy to tell you, you don't have cancer. Your cancer has not come back. And they were both like, ali, thank you so much. They're so happy if you come in, if people come into my office and they're like, hey, I got chronic Lyme disease. And I go you have something.
And I went through everything, and to the very best of my knowledge, as a fully recovered Lyme babesia person, and a person who has an expertise in this can tell you, I don't think Lyme is your major problem. They basically say, f you. You don't believe me, and I'm like, where did this come from? Like, don't buy into that crap. I'm telling you, there's something wrong. Let's find out what it is so that you can get better. So, for me, when I bring it back to my personal experience, I didn't have that labeled anything to really hook it on. Like, if they had said it was Lyme, maybe I would have gone down a completely different path and been chronic. Lyme is untreatable, but I didn't. I just knew that I was going to get better, and I did everything humanly possible, and next thing you know, it's 13 plus years later, no symptoms, and I'm helping other people to experience the same thing. So I know that there's a lot of people out there who are, like, they think they have Lyme. You don't want to have Lyme, just like you don't want to have cancer, but if you do, we can help you. But if you don't have it, don't get so mad at somebody. Like, I mean, if they're just, like, blowing you off and they're the standard Eliza test. Oh, you don't have. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when you see somebody with expertise, personal passion, someone who's worked in this field and helped other people, if they think, say, like, I don't think. Like, I had a guy the other day, and I feel so bad. It's like, we've worked with him. He has evidence that he probably had headline. At some point, his symptoms kind of made sense that he could still have it, so he started treating him with medications that didn't work. We did some herbs and all the other stuff. Nothing changed. He got on a pain patch from his primary for his pain. He's like, oh, my symptoms are 100% gone. I mean, this is two years after tons of work, so it's not like we're trying to cliff note it, but in the end, he goes, I have no symptoms. I can't believe you don't believe I have Lyme.
I'm like, but a pain patch does not treat Lyme.
And I'm like, I'm so thankful that he's better. Like, literally, he said my symptoms are, like, 100% gone, and I'm like, this is a miracle. This is incredible. I wish I had thought of what your primary did. Kudos to that person. Now, we had done all the other work. Maybe it helped, who knows? But it was like, if the pain patch fixes you, why are you saying, I can't believe you think I don't have Lyme? Like, well, we treated you for a couple years, and nothing changed. We tried every trick in the book, and maybe we got you to the point where. Because it's not like he'd never tried pain control before, but it was just interesting. It was, like, out of left field. And this is something that happens with Lyme, and if you in the community, if you will, and people who grab that label, it's like, Lyme becomes everything. I'm like, well, if you had Lyme, which clearly this person had Lyme at some point in his life, based on his labs and his history, we treated to check if he had the persistence. And to the best of our knowledge, I mean, we had positive lab tests. They all became negative. The problem was he never got any different. So, I mean. So was there Lyme still there? Yeah. Did we treat you for. Did I believe you? Yes. I mean, I'm the only person who went out on the limb for you for a couple of years. And then I said, maybe we need to look at something in addition to this, because this hasn't worked, even though your labs got better. So we did all the work, and then they're just like, oh, no, I've. You know, I'm sorry that, you know, you don't believe I have Lyme. I'm like, I don't. You know, I don't even know what to say some days, you know, I just want people to understand that, like, we actually know what's going on, and we try, and sometimes we don't have all the answers, but just because we don't have the answer is something that you don't like, that doesn't mean we're wrong or that we don't believe you. We believe you have something wrong. I lived through it. It's horrible. But let me tell you, like, I also. The part of the story I left out is I was almost completely better from everything, you know, once I started treating with those people, my joint pain went away, my muscle pain went away. My physical stamina was dramatically improved, but my cognitive function was shit. It was terrible.
So at the end of that, I learned about heavy metal toxicity. And so if I had just gone down the Lyme thing forever. Id have never known that. Oh, the mercury amalgams that I had learned that I had had, you know, I needed to have them removed. I did chelation, and that helped clear all the brain fog, but it was. But I didn't have brain fog before Lyme, and I had the filling, so Lyme made it so that I held onto the metals more, but I still needed to get rid of them. And that wasn't Lyme disease, that was metals.
And so if I had just said Lyme disease like this, I wouldn't even be. I mean, I literally, at that point, could not do three plus two in my head.
I could do it on paper, but that's really kind of scary when you're becoming a doctor, that you can't do math.
[00:35:04] Speaker C: So, yeah, dosing schedule of patients becomes a little bit of a challenge if you're not able to do math as a physician.
I mean, it is interesting, as I'm listening to you, because you're coming from it both as a patient and as a doctor, so you're recognizing kind of your own challenges not being validated and recognized of your disease. By the way, at that time, you didn't, you didn't know what it was, and you didn't have a label, so you, you couldn't be upset if somebody said, well, you don't have Lyme because you didn't know that you had it.
But it is interesting then, you know, that patients that are coming to you and then not, and you're kind of experiencing, in a way, you know, what, what you experienced, even though you are behaving, obviously, in a completely different way than what the normal doc would do. But a lot of people, they kind of walk through that journey of being invalidated and validated and validated, and then all of a sudden, that's just what they're holding on, that nobody believes me. I'm invalidated. And they hold on to that story even though somebody is validating them, but they can't see it because they hold on to that story.
[00:36:26] Speaker B: Yeah, it.
I wish I had all the answers because I feel it, like, you know, and it was like, you know, it kind of breaks my heart a little bit because we, like myself, I can, and I say we. I mean, I teach providers. I hang out with awesome people like yourself. Like, I don't, I don't hang out with people who are just like, oh, no, I know what's right, and you're wrong. You're the patient, you're wrong. Everybody I know that I hang out with has gotten into medicine because they love people and they want to help alleviate their suffering. They want to help them get better. And when I'm sitting there giving you the very best I have, and maybe I don't know the right answer, and I'm happy to say that. I mean, clearly with this gentleman I just described, if I had just given him, like, a diclofenac patch, he'd have been all better. I mean, it was like an anti inflammatory. It was a non steroidal anti inflammatory. It's just like, topical ibuprofen, essentially. It's not like there was any magic in this, but it was like. But it's just like, I just. I'm so thankful that he's better.
That's all I want. And I would like him to let go of this. Like, I don't believe. You know, I'm bummed that you don't believe I have Lyme, because I know that that mindset may not. May trickle in other areas of his life, and I just want him to have a blast and feel good. And I also don't want anyone to feel gaslit. I don't want to them to feel invalidated. You have something wrong, but whatever it is, let's get over it and get going. Because to me, and when I did that Lyme summit last year, I was like, every conversation boiled down to love. And I'm like, my whole thing is your healing journey is your healing journey. Don't listen to what other people around you have. Say, listen to their experience. Listen to my experience and learn something. But don't think that your healing journey is the same as mine. Or should it be? You have your own unique journey, and what I want you to do on that journey is start to, like, really shine your unique light, live your passion. Because to me, it's really about living. If you. You need to live, you need to love your life and love whatever you love in your life. And when you live and you love, then you heal. A lot of my people are kind of, like, they want to heal so that they put their lives on hold so they can heal and then live. But really, the healing is in the living and the loving.
And that, to me, is like, that is what feels good. And so, you know, am I bummed that somebody says, like, hey, they're bummed, you know, they're upset with me a little bit because they don't think I believe them? Yeah. Is it going to ruin my life? No, but because I love them so much, I want them to feel that they're being loved, and I don't want, you know, and, I mean, I literally had the conversation face to face with them multiple times. So I can only do so much, but I just. I want people to love their lives. And, like, really, like, everybody's unique. Everybody has this gift of love and light in their heart, and if they can share something. And I tell people all the time because I see about 50% kids, so I see, you know, I'm teaching a lot of parents how to be good parents, but even, like, when your kiddo, whether they're eight or they're 14, like, my little one is giving you the bird to your face, they go in the other room and they're still doing this. They're still listening. And you're so highly influential over everyone around you, your friends, your partner, your children, and the best thing, and most importantly, over yourself. So we really, when people say fake it till you make it, what they're saying is, believe in yourself. At least this is my interpretation. Believe in yourself so much that you're starting to lead yourself by example. Be the best leader you can be for not only the people around you, but yourself. And if you want to be the best parent, you have to take care of yourself the best before you take care of your kid. Now, obviously, when they're little, you got to feed them and stuff, but if you don't refresh yourself, you don't show up 100% for anybody else. And they all know. And if you're not willing to, like, show up 100% for you, you're teaching all those people around you that it's okay to play half assed, it's okay to not show up 100% for yourself.
Yet people still come to us, and they want us to show up 100% for them. I'm like, why don't we start with you showing up 100% for you? Because that's what. And the way I try to do that is I try to lead by example.
And I actually had this patient agreement where I'm like, you need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do this. And if you commit to this, you can be a patient. And it's mostly just to stimulate people to share their story, share all the details, and then let it go and write a new one, and also to hold yourself accountable, because it's your health. I'm here to help you. My team's here to help you. But let's really get it out there. And what was so interesting, I had one lady after she signed it, she'd been a longtime patient, but when I introduced this next level of personal accountability, she's like, doctor Tom, I'm really sorry, but this is going to be my last appointment with you. I'm like, oh, no, what's up?
And she's like, well, I read the patient agreement, the commitment agreement thing, and I can't do it because, number four, I want to do it, but I don't think I can, and I don't want to let you down. I go, you are definitely not the person that we asked that we made that for. You're the person that we wanted to say that, because I know that you're showing up for yourself, and you're so much so that you're taking accountability before, and you're asking me for help for that. That's my job. That's what I'm here for. You're 100% the right person to work with us. And it was so beautiful because you see her just moving and moving and trying, and it's not about achievement, right? It's not about. It's the journey. And if you're willing to show up for yourself, we're here for you. And if there's days where you can't 100 where you. Where you're like, you know, it's interesting, the four agreements, like Dom Miguel Ruiz is, who's a Toltec Shaman, wrote the four agreements, and one of them is always do your best.
But the thing is, your best is different from moment to moment. So just don't sell yourself short. And if you need a hand, we're here to lift you up. And if you need somebody to hold you once you're up, great. If you need a walker and you want me to step back and be a spotter, no problem. If you need whatever it is, we're here for you. But it's like, show up for yourself. If your intention in here is to show up for yourself as best you can today, then we're 100% here for you every time. That's really the thing, and that's where the labels, I just think, get in the way. It's like, if you're a limey, you can only go to here, but if you're a person who's here because you got Lyme, but you want to go here because you're showing up 100% for yourself, we can help.
This person has a much better chance of leaving here and going here than the person who's here and says, I can't leave here, they're pretty much stuck.
[00:43:33] Speaker C: So I can't agree more. I mean, because it's so important. And I think that's the issue with a lot of, you know, so called limey's. Yeah. Is that they, they tend to be type a personalities, and they tend to be people that are just kind of showing up for everybody else, perfection for everybody else out there, but they are not showing the same love, same care, same consideration for themselves. And I, and I think that puts them then in that, that kind of weak spot that will allow an infection to take hold.
[00:44:12] Speaker B: It's a really, I think this is one of the greatest points I've heard anybody make about this. It's definitely, when you, across the board, when you talk to Lyme patients, people who have experienced Lyme disease for a longer period of time and people who treat it, everybody says, you know, the vast majority of people are type a. The vast majority of people definitely are out there putting other people first. I tell people all the time, like, all this shit I'm saying is, like I say to myself in the mirror, whatever I'm saying out loud, I've already investigated inside. And if I say something tonight, I take notes when I'm doing these talks and we're doing little interviews, and I'm like, wait, I'm going to go investigate that deeper here before I ask you to do it. There's nothing outside, you know, that I have, that I say outside that I haven't also looked inside. Or if there's once in a blue moon that something new comes while we're talking, I go investigate it for me first, because I'm worthy and, like, you are worthy to receive healing. You are worthy to receive all of these things. You're worthy to be healed. You're worthy to be happy to receive love. And so many people, like, when I ask them to look inside, they're like, holy shit, this is going to hurt. So I'm like, well, that's not Lyme disease. That actually might be the gift of Lyme. And so one of the things I teach people, a lot of that I think is so interesting, and I just want to write a quick note because I want to remember to say something. But one of the things I say to people all the time is to take a look and just really know.
People are always like, how do I boost my, how do I optimize brain detoxification? What's the best supplement or the best injection? Glutathione or this? That I go sleep like, well, I can't sleep. I'm like well why not? Well because of this and that and that. I'm like why don't we do a practice at bedtime that will help you get parasympathetic, get out of fight flight and even that freeze state and help you sort of get back in your body and get relaxation so you can go to sleep. And I learned this really great exercise, if you dont mind me sharing, but its like this gratitude exercise and theres a now and this is a way to trick your body into boosting your immune system and sleeping better. So its always like the simplest tricks. So the first thing you can do is if you want to improve your heart rate variability, right, because a lot of people are biohacking, wearing oura rings and whoops and all this other stuff apple watches and checking it like it's really simple. Optimal heart rate variability happens when you're breathing about six times a minute. So most people are breathing twelve to 20 times according to the medical textbooks. But the reality is most of us are breathing way shallow and wave fast.
And you know that when you get stressed or anxious or whatever, your breath rate goes up, right? So one of the things you can do to hit about six breaths per minute is you breathe in for five and a half seconds, you breathe out for five and a half seconds and if you do that, you breathe about five and a half times a minute, which is pretty damn close to 60 or to six. So you just do like inhale 2345 and exhale 54321 and you just do in a cycle for three to five minutes.
And what's really interesting is if I ask you to hold your breath, if I ask you to slow your breathing and most people have a hard time, but if I ask them to count five and a half and five and a half, most people have no problem, right? So just do that. That actually will get you to approximately six breaths per minute, which is optimal heart rate variability, which when your heart rate variability goes up, that means your immune system is working better, your resilience to stress and infection is better, and you're going to tolerate all kinds of things in life better and you're going to live longer.
So it's like wow, three. Now the thing that's really cool about that is when you bump up your heart rate variability, you decrease sympathetic tone and you get much more rest and digest parasympathetic. Now you start to get ready for sleep. And so if you want to look at the work that the heartman Institute has done with gratitude, you can couple breathing. So if you do your breathing five and a half in, five and a half out, thinking about it's coming into your chest, that's step one.
Then you do this crazy thing is you have gratitude for something that you love a lot. Like anything could be life. Something that you used to be able to do, something that you're going to be able to do, something that you think you love, but you don't even know a loved one, whatever a puppy, whatever it is in your heart, and just think about that and your heart rate variability increase even more. And if you want to get super crazy, because I like super crazy, I learned from Dan Sullivan and Ben Hardy, who are business coaches, essentially. Well, Dan's a business coach. Ben's a writer who writes for Dan. But they said that so many people, there's this concept of gap and gain. So many people are saying, I'm at point, I'm here, and I need to get way, way over there. So I start going. I start going. I start going. And I've gone for a month and I find out that I've gone this far, and they look forward and they go, oh, my God, it's so far away. I'm never going to get there. The gap is huge. But I've had people come in and say, I'm 70%. 70% comes up in my life a lot. It should keep tabs on that. But they're like, my life is horrible. My line is terrible. I'm not getting better. I'm like, well, we've been working together for four months. How much better are you? Only 70%.
I'm like, okay, well, that last 30% could be hard, and it is far. If you've been walking the first 70%, you might be tired, but turn around for a second and look at how much you've gained. And so one of the things, it's not to say that you still don't have a goal to reach, but just to take a little bit of pride and just knowledge and understanding of how much progress you made. So one of the tricks that they teach is, at the end of your day, spend three minutes, no more, and write down three things. Just three. I mean, it's a lot, but three that went well in your day.
And it doesn't matter how big or small. And if you have a crappy day, just write down three lessons you learned from your day. Right. It doesn't matter.
And then write that down. And then write down three things that are going to be wins for tomorrow. So three wins for today, three wins for tomorrow.
Because first of all, people, in the beginning, the first two or three days, people are like, oh, I don't know what went right. Oh, I guess it's this. I guess I mean, like, some of my people, it's like, hey, I was able to go to the bathroom on my own. I didn't need assistance today. It could be anything. You know, I woke up and I'm breathing, and I'm still alive, right, great. You know, I'm alive, I'm breathing, and I can open my eyes like it. Like, some people are that sick.
And so then you write down three things that are going to go great, tomorrow. And this is really the critical piece, because if you say, tomorrow I'm going to heal from Lyme, whatever, or tomorrow I'm going to buy a winning lottery ticket. As soon as you do that, because those are pretty lofty goals, your conscious mind is going to go, oh, no, I don't know how this ain't going to happen. But if you just write them down and the three wins for tomorrow should take less than 30 seconds, and then you just leave those six things there, then you go to bed.
Once you fall asleep, and even the worst insomniac generally, occasionally will fall asleep. Then your conscious mind dissociates from your subconscious, and one of our friends talks about the superconscious. And then essentially, your subconscious, when your conscious mind is taking a nap, is connected to the universe or God or whatever source intelligence that breathes life into us. That whatever word you like is good for me. Two.
And then that subconscious superconscious starts going, oh, wait, I can make it happen this way and this way, and it's open to new possibilities. So as long as you're open to allowing new possibilities in your life, all you have to do is say three things that are going to go, well tomorrow. Today, you wake up in the next morning, and you read all six things, and you're done. And then that takes 15, 20 seconds, and the end of the day, you do another three minutes. And what I recommend when people get that crazy, when they're actually writing down their six wins and they're doing three to five minutes of breathing, is, I would get into that heart, I would write them down, I would get into that heart space and just breathe and, like, feel whatever gratitude. And you can think about those things if you want. You can think about something else. And when you're done your breathing and you're feeling nice and relaxed, read over those wins again. And literally, this has taken you eight minutes, you are totally worth it. In fact, if you don't have eight minutes and you only have three, you can actually do the breathing while you're writing these things down. But I think you can find eight minutes because you are that worthy and that special and give that time to yourself. Because what ends up happening is I've had people take, as usually take, about four days to start to notice that the following day, all these amazing new things are happening in their life. The longest I've heard it take is seven days.
And you can definitely invest if you want to. If you don't have eight minutes, seven days in a row to give to yourself, you probably don't actually want to get better.
I'm sure there's going to be one exception somewhere, but you can figure out a way to get it done. And that's the thing. We have to put that effort in, Michael. And it's so simple, but it's crazy powerful, because within a week, you start to see all these nuances, and then you're like, you end up with four and seven and ten things that went well. And then you're like, holy crap. I can write down ten things that are going to go well tomorrow. And eventually what you do is you start to savor it. And it's almost like, if anybody likes wine, which don't drink too much of it, but a little bit's all right, you can savor. And it's like you take a sip and swirl it around, and if you use a different glass, it puts it on your tongue different. And, like, every moment of a sip of wine is different, and then if you have it with, like, a piece of beef versus, like, a vegan sushi roll, completely different experience. And so you start to savor the nuances of your life and your experience. And so when I bring it back to Lyme, I go, all right. Well, if the things I think about, I bring about, and the things I focus on are the things that stay cemented in my life, I've now, with my gratitude, practice not only boosted my immune system, boosted my resilience to infection and stress, optimize my energy, change my outlook, but I've boosted my immune system function so that this stuff can get out of my life, then I go, hey, Lyme disease, what are you here to teach me?
What am I supposed to learn? Like, why did you come into my life and not somebody else's? Because the CDC says 80% of people who get Lyme disease will get cured with a standard ten to 21 day course of therapy, and, you know, but they're crickets for the other 20%.
And then you go and you look at the data, and there's all kinds of crazy evidence, including a great study that came out about March of 2023, that about 75% of people get better within six months of that first course of treatment. The problem is, the other 25% may be sick for up to ten years after the treatment.
And then there's studies out of Johns Hopkins showing that most mice that get long Lyme disease, if you will, are not treated or under treated, and they get normal long Lyme. But there's about 20% of those mice that will get Lyme, early Lyme, like, essentially persistent late Lyme symptoms right away.
So what we found with not. I mean, we can dive into the nuances of research if you want. But the big part that I think I want to tell people is a lot of the people who are talking about the 75% to 80% of people get better right away are actually telling you the truth.
The challenge is the 20% to 25% that don't get better. That's a lot of people.
And if about a half a million people per year in the United States alone get Lyme disease, that means about 100,000 people have persistent Lyme symptoms.
The two sides that are feuding, actually, both probably have a part of the truth. And the problem is, and they are starting to come together, not everybody, but a lot of people. I work with this side a lot to bring both sides together, and the researchers are starting to see what the patients are experiencing. Now, we're way behind that in terms of research that supports it, but we're getting there. And the biggest challenge I have is that both sides, when we start to pretend there's a fight, we forget that there's a middle, that both of ours are talking about the patient. And that, for me, is the big challenge. We need to come back and put the patients first and say, look, we both. There are a bunch of people get better right away. There are a handful of people who don't, but the handful of people who don't, that's a lot of people. So it's really important for me to really let people know that the sides are working together, and they're starting to learn that the other one might not be lying. They just might be. It's almost kind of like the whole proverb about, like, if you have a bunch of people who, um, are blindfolded and you, you know, you walk them up to an elephant and one you have them grab the front leg, one you have to grab the tail, and one grab the trunk. They all describe their piece of reality differently, you know, and. But because they haven't felt. They haven't seen the other side. So we're coming together. But how you can take action, you know, is let them do their stuff. Let people like myself work to bridge the gap, know that it's happening. But then go back to what I was saying, like, lyme disease. What are you here to teach me? Right? I'm not saying that Lyme is good. Not going there, but what I'm saying is, you could actually see that lime is there, like, with mold. Why is mold in your life? Well, what does mold do? Mold decomposes, and it takes what? It decomposes and releases those nutrients for new growth. Same with lime. So I tell people, hey, have you loved Lyme today?
Literally, because the people who are still sick with Lyme hate Lyme disease. So I'm like, have you loved your lyme? And what I want you to do is say, lyme disease, I love you. Thank you so very much. There's a door right there.
Here's a post it note. On your way out the door, write down that one lesson that I was supposed to learn and put it next to the door on your way out. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way. Right? But it's, like, such a different. I tell people that these patients are like, are you serious? You want me to love it? I'm like, love it and let it go, right? I mean, because if you just go, I hate this, or I don't. Like. Like, immediately, I can feel my chest going like this. I can feel my whole demeanor change, and I hold onto it too long. It's like, I cement it in. So if it's like, hey, you know, Lyme disease, I love you, and it's just like family, right? Like, you have. You should love them all, but you don't have to like them, right? You can. So it's like, you know, I have certain family members that I'm super close to, and it's like, at different points in my life, when my dad was alive, we were super close, and other times, we were super far, and there were times we didn't really like each other. And then the more we gave each other space, the more we could focus on the love, and then we could bring it back down to, we were cool again before he died. But it's like, the same thing is, like. But when I was mad at my old man for all the stuff he did. He wasn't. He. He was like 2000 miles away from me and my life was being ruined by what I thought was going on, and he was just like, hanging out, sleeping on his retirement cushion, which is right behind me because I'm in his house. But it's like, why don't we just, why don't we just go, hey, this thing is cool to get the hell out of my body, but the best way to get it out of your body is to not resist it. Let it come in and pass through. It's like you think about inflammation. What is. Inflammation is a healing process acutely, but if it stays on chronically, it breaks you down.
So, like, maybe my experience with Lyme acutely was something, and now if I can let it go, I have a next. And again, it's not to say that you don't have Lyme. It's not to say you don't need medications or herbs or proper diagnosis and treatment. Do everything in your power to just be as, like, have the world's greatest immune system. With the pandemic, I'm like, become the world's worst viral host.
It was funny, Michael, when I was sick and before I was sick, I was getting bit by ticks all the time. Since I recovered from Lyme disease, I've been bitten by one tick and I live outside, and it was like. I honestly think it was. The dietary change changes. The way I smell there is definitely the better your diet, probably the less likely you are, because the tick knows. The tick. No, it and the spirochetes have been around for over 13 million years, way longer than human beings. So we know that they know how to survive. They don't want to go to you if you're impervious. And the number one thing they can feel is the energetics. So just be like, hey, things are cool. If I get Lyme, I'll treat it. If I have Lyme, I'll let it go. And then you can make that objective decision with your physician or your other practitioner on how to recover fully.
[01:02:05] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
And that, I mean, that's exactly it.
I mean, because the Lyme looks for a host where whatever they spew out is able then to proliferate and live well.
So if you're a host that does not represent that. They rather pick one where that can take place. So you're absolutely right. Eating well, thinking well, and living a life of gratitude, of love, that's not going to be a place where they feel that they are going to be able to move forward because that body is fortified, the immune system is fortified and is ready to pick up the battle. And can I set the boundaries this and no further. So I love to.
Let's continue in the next episode because there's so much stuff that I want to pick your brain with. So let's end it today and we will follow up next week for the next episode. I. Yeah, you have so much experience and so much, it's incredible. And you look at it from. From a completely different view than I know a lot of other doctors do. And so I really. Yeah. Which is sad, and that's why you're teaching other doctors.
So. But thank you. Thank you, doctor Talm, for hanging with me. And, you know, next episode is going to be even better if it can. I'm not sure.
[01:03:43] Speaker B: Absolutely I can. And one quick thank you is I don't usually get to spend this much time on my story and the stuff that I learned from being a patient, and I just think it's such a service to people. And thank you for the opportunity to share it because this is all stuff that helped me get better and I had to learn the hard way if it was packaged for me like this in the beginning. And so I just, again, I know we're going to be talking about the things, the nuts and bolts, if you will. But I can tell you this is a minimum of 70% of the stuff that got me better, and then the rest of it was necessary, and we'll talk about that. So just thank you for letting me take a deep dive into the stuff I'm so passionate about because this is where the real healing happens, and then the rest of it is necessary as well. At times.
[01:04:32] Speaker C: I love it. My pleasure. Thank you.
[01:04:42] Speaker A: The information this podcast is for educational purposes only and it's not designed to diagnose or treat any disease. I hope this podcast impacted you as it did me. Please subscribe so that you can be notified when new episodes are released. There are some excellent shows coming up that you do not want to miss. If you're enjoying these podcasts, please take a moment to write a review and please don't keep this information to yourself. Share them with your family and friends. Friends. You never know what piece of information that will transform their lives. For past episodes and powerful information on how to conquer Lyme, go to integrativelimesolutions.com and an additional powerful resource, limestream.com. For lime support and group discussions. Join Tanya on Facebook at Lime Conquerors Mentoring Limeworthy if you'd like to know more about the cutting edge integrative of Lyme therapies MyCenter offers, please visit thecarlfeldcenter.com. Thank you for spending this time with.
[01:05:43] Speaker D: Us, and I hope to see you.
[01:05:44] Speaker A: At our next episode of Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Karl Feldt.
