[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Karl Feldt.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: I am so excited about the show.
[00:00:07] Speaker C: That we have ahead of us. We have some phenomenal information that could save lives. You're gonna need to tune in to what's going on today. The information is jam packed, so don't step away.
Well, I am so excited. I have Doctor Marina Janover. She is a naturopathic doctor and she specializes in Lyme.
Thank you so much for being with me here today.
[00:00:38] Speaker D: Oh, it's my pleasure.
[00:00:39] Speaker C: Well, this is truly a treat. I've been doing the Gonzalez protocol, but mostly for cancer, or I should say the Kelly protocol, because I was trained by Pamela McDougall. But you were trained by Nick Gonzalez with the Kelly protocol.
[00:01:00] Speaker D: Yes, yes, I'm trained by Nick Gonzalez and later by the group, the Gonzalez protocol group. And so, yes, Doctor Gonzalez applied his protocol to treat Lyme patients very successfully.
[00:01:20] Speaker C: I'm really curious, so if you don't mind, just kind of first share a little bit about what, let's share a little bit about what intrigued you by the Gonzalez protocol and then a little bit what, what it is so people can understand. And then I would love to hear kind of some of the stories and how, how it's benefiting, but. Yes, yeah, let, yes, let me understand a little bit how gonzalez. Yeah, what Gonzalez protocol is.
[00:01:46] Speaker D: Okay. Okay. So first you asked me about what intrigued me about the Gonzalez protocol. So I'm a naturopathic doctor, and I went to Bastille University in Seattle. And when I graduated, I moved back to the east coast because I lived on the east coast before I went to Seattle. And I was looking for somebody to kind of learn from. You know, I wasn't ready. I felt like I need more practice. And I just wanted to spend some time with some good doctors. And I found Doctor Gonzalez and started reading about his protocol. And it just made sense, you know, like, his protocol made perfect sense. And I called his office and I asked if I could preceptor with him, and that was okay. I remember I had to write him a letter asking him to do that. And in that letter I had to put why? I'm interested in his protocol and why do you think it could benefit me? So I did that, and I was accepted into, you know, his practice to observe. And I learned a lot.
That was about 2000, maybe beginning of 2000, maybe 2002.
And I learned a lot. I spent about six months with him, and I kind of learned the principles of it and applied with my patients ever since, even though not every patient could be a candidate for the Gonzalez protocol. But the principles were always in my mind since that time, and I always knew that that's, you know, how you treat people, the diet, you know, the principles of the metabolic typing, the detoxification, how important it is to detox the person, how important it is to, you know, not use one diet fit all approach. So all of that really shaped my career and thinking how I approach patients in general.
[00:04:10] Speaker C: And what are those principles you talked about? Detoxification and then also metabolic typing.
So what does that mean? How does that relate to somebody dealing with Lyme?
[00:04:27] Speaker D: So the metabolic typing is determining what type of genetic makeup the person has, so that you can categorize that person into the specific type, which will help to determine what kind of food will be the best for that patient. So, for example, and it's not only food, it's food, because food is a building block of our life. We have to eat properly. That's number one thing. Everyone eats. But it's also supplements. What kind of supplements we put in our body. It's also detoxification procedures. Not everyone. For example, there are different detox procedures that may be good for one person and not good for another person.
And so once you know somebody's metabolic type, you know, you know what type of plan you're going to give them. So that's already 50% of the treatment right there. And because Lyme is a chronic illness, it's also considered an autoimmune illness by some of the definition of american autoimmune society.
It just makes sense because there is so much damage going on in Lyme patients, it just makes sense to apply the metabolic typing on them, and it makes all the difference.
[00:06:15] Speaker C: And so what are. So you're talking about the metabolic typing. So what are some of the different categories? Are there, like, you know, twelve of them? Are they how many different? And how do you, when you meet a person, how do you determine which type a person is?
[00:06:35] Speaker D: So there are several ways to do this.
In our group, we do have a test available that we test people for, but we don't solely rely on the test.
You can also determine it by asking general questions. What type of foods do you like to eat? What do you really like? Not that you heard somewhere that maybe meat is not good for you, but do you really crave certain foods besides sugar, of course.
What do you like to do? Are you a morning person? Do you like to exercise? What type of exercise makes you feel better or worse? When are you most productive? There is a lot of questions that you can ask the patient and have an idea what type of metabolic type they are. You can also cross reference it with where are you from? Where are your ancestors from? If somebody, for example, is coming from Sweden, you know, Scandinavia, northern countries, you already know that they probably need to eat meat because those are northern people. They'll do well on meat. And if somebody is coming from southern countries, somebody's coming from Italy, their ancestors are from Italy, they'll be probably good with much less meat and more of a mediterranean type diet with a lot of grains and beans and lots of fish, vegetables, things like that. So, yes, and so once you get all of that information plus the test, but you don't need to have the test and some of the blood markers that also help you take all of that together and you figure out the.
[00:08:37] Speaker C: Metabolic type and how many different types are there, you know?
[00:08:42] Speaker D: Yes. So there's pen types that we work with, but, you know, you can categorize them if you want to put them in, like, street categories. There is balance type, which is, you know, they can eat everything. And then there is also extreme type, extreme vegetarian. And then on the other side of the extreme is extreme carnivore, and then there's the people in between. Right? So there's moderate carnivore and moderate vegetarian. And balanced carnivore. Balanced vegetarian. So you regulate how much of what food they should be consuming a week. So, for example, extreme carnivores should be eating meat three times a day, seven days a week, but balanced carnivore should be eating less meat, like maybe three to four times a week.
It really depends. The same for the vegetarian side.
[00:09:54] Speaker B: Hello, dear listeners. This is Doctor Michael Karlfeldt, your host of integrative Lyme Solutions. Today, I'm excited to share an exclusive opportunity from the Karlfeld center, where we blend healing power of nature with groundbreaking therapies to combat lyme disease and its associated challenges. At the Karfeld center, we're not just fighting Lyme. We're revolutionizing the way it's treated with cutting edge therapies like photodynamic therapy, full body ozone IV therapy, Silver IV's, brain rebalancing, autonomic response testing, laser energetic detoxification, and more. We aim to eradicate Lyme. Our approach is comprehensive, supporting your body's immune system, detoxification processes, hormonal balance, and mitochondrial health, ensuring a holistic path to recovery. Understanding Lyme disease and its impact is complex, which is why we're offering a free 15 minutes discovery call with one of our Lyme literate naturopathic doctors. This call is your first step towards understanding how we can personalize your healing journey, focusing on you as a whole person, not just your symptoms. Our team, led by myself, doctor Michael Karlthalz, is here to guide you through your recovery with the most advanced diagnostic tools, individualized treatment plans, and supportive therapies designed to restore your health and vitality. Whether you're facing Lyme disease head on or seeking preventative strategies, we're committed to your wellness. Take the first step towards reclaiming your health. Visit
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[00:11:55] Speaker C: So we talked about the diet part and then the detox you mentioned. That's really important.
What are some of the components of the detox protocol that's really important?
[00:12:08] Speaker D: In the Gonzalez protocol, the detox is very important.
There's daily detox procedures that all of our patients do, and those are coffee animas. Coffee animus was very, very important part of the Gonzalez protocol, and still is, because it helps liver to detox and dump out toxins.
Then there are other detox procedures that we do every month. Those are deeper cleanses, things like liver flash and colon cleanse and various other cleanses that we do.
[00:12:57] Speaker C: What about supplements?
Is that a big part as well, or. Yeah, what? Yes. Is that something that.
[00:13:06] Speaker D: Yes. So, yes, supplements are a big part of the protocol. Supplements also are chosen based on the metabolic type, but not only on the metabolic type, also on what, you know, what are the deficiencies in a particular person. So, for example, certain organs may not function that well.
And we use glandular therapies in the supplement protocol.
For example, if somebody's adrenals don't function well, we give them adrenal glandular supplement.
Same with thymus or kidney or hypothalamus. So we use a lot of glandular. It's the same principle as in old days, people used to eat the organs of the animals, and those organs helped their own organs to function better.
We find the weak spot in the person and we try to give them the supplement of that particular organ. We also ask them to eat organ meats.
That's also a big part of the protocol. But in addition to glandulars, we also give vitamins and minerals and amino acids and essential fatty acids.
There's a lot, a lot of times we determine what type of excess the person has. For example, they may have candida going on, or parasites, or another type of infection. And so we deal with that in the protocol as well, in the form of supplements or sometimes herbal extracts. So we use that a lot.
[00:15:05] Speaker C: Oh, great. And then I know one of the main components, in addition to the diet and the detox strategies are the pancreatic enzymes, right?
[00:15:17] Speaker D: Yes, the pancreatic enzymes. Doctor Gonzalez used them in the treatment of cancer, because, you know, Doctor Kelly figured it out through his own illness, how pancreatic enzymes help him to recover from the pancreatic cancer.
But pancreatic enzymes also fight inflammation. So in case of Lyme patients, even though they don't have cancer, pancreatic enzymes have anti inflammatory effects. We use them not in the amounts that the cancer patient would use, but we use them at least twice a day between meals and with every meal. But it depends on the person. Of course, each patient is different, but we trying to support their digestive system as well. And pancreatic enzymes are very helpful with that.
[00:16:20] Speaker C: And so, because a lot of times when you think of Lyme, then, like you're saying, you're thinking of infections, and then you're thinking of, you know, what do I need to do to kill the infections? But here it sounds like you're focusing a little bit differently than just going after the infection.
[00:16:38] Speaker D: Yes. So in the healthy body, the infection has no place to live, right.
If somebody has strong immune system, even if they get bitten by a tick, they will brush it off. Their body will be able to expel it and deal with it. If somebody doesn't have good immune system, then any pathogen will cause a big problem. That's what happens with Lyme patients. They probably weren't quite healthy before they were bitten, or maybe they thought they were healthy, but they weren't really healthy. We are trying to support the whole system so they can function better, trying to support the terrain, as some doctors call it.
And then once they're there, then the body starts taking care of itself and able to expel the infection.
[00:17:38] Speaker C: So you don't really focus that much on the infection per se. You focus more on restoring health and then controlling inflammation than using high doses of the pancreatic enzymes.
[00:17:55] Speaker D: We do use some of the botanicals to clear the infections, but nothing, you know, it's not our main priority. Yes. We focus on restoring the health first.
[00:18:10] Speaker C: Okay. And do you mind just kind of for patients out there so they can understand what the journey looks like and what are some of the results that. That you've seen?
[00:18:27] Speaker D: So the journey, you mean the. On the Gonzalez protocol?
[00:18:31] Speaker C: Yeah. When a patient comes to you and they're dealing with Lyme and I and. Yeah. So what does the whole journey look like for them, and what can people expect?
[00:18:42] Speaker D: So, yes, they typically, we ask them to do a test, that we do a hair test.
We set up an appointment with them. We go over the whole history, the symptoms. That appointment last for an hour and a half to 2 hours. We talk about various points or times in their life where things could have happened to them that maybe caused this problem. So we really kind of dive deep into the history to try to figure out what happened. What could it be? Because not a lot of people also know they have Lyme. Sometimes they come in, they think they have Lyme, but they're not sure. But their symptoms are like presenting as a Lyme patient.
After spending a lot of time with a patient, what I normally do is I take everything together, all the tests, all the history, and I create the protocol for the patient.
And once I've created the protocol, we set another appointment, we go over it, I explain to the patient how to do certain procedures, why I prescribe certain supplements, walk them through the diet, through the supplements, through the detox protocols that they have to implement.
I explain the test results to them, and, you know, what I found and why I gave them certain things.
And once they understand how to do this, they start the protocol. And I am available to them through phone or email, because especially when they first start, they always have a lot of questions, and so I'm kind of there for them. And then they master the protocol and do it. And the results are very gradual, but usually within the first three months, they start seeing the difference, and the difference could be amazing.
And I always. Yeah, go ahead.
[00:21:09] Speaker C: No, no, no. Go ahead. Yeah, you always.
[00:21:12] Speaker D: I always tell people not to, you know, not to expect miracles in the first couple of weeks, but I have seen miracles in the first couple of weeks. I have seen that after the first liver flash, sometimes somebody didn't have pain anymore, the back pain was gone, or the person had brain fog or depression, and that lifted.
But typically, you need time in order to see those changes. And in the beginning, it could be ups and downs, but there is always more ups than downs as the time goes on.
And finally, they're able to heal themselves.
[00:22:00] Speaker C: I love it. I love it with the coffee enemas, just so people can know the expectation. I know with cancer patients, we have them do coffee enemas twice a day.
Is that what you do as well with Lyme patients while on the pancreatic enzymes?
[00:22:20] Speaker D: They don't have to do it twice a day because the amount of pancreatic enzymes is not as much as for cancer patients.
For cancer patients, the amount of enzymes could be up to a lot, like six times a day, 14 cap. That's a lot.
For Lyme patients, it's not nearly as much, but sometimes they have so much toxic load that sometimes coffee enema twice a day will make them feel better. So I go by how they feel initially. I don't tell them to do it twice a day, but if they feel very toxic in the second half of the day, I might suggest to do a coffee enema, the second coffee enema.
We also had patients that sometimes don't tolerate coffee enemas, especially with Lyme, because a lot of them have this something called histamine intolerance or histamine dominance. And sometimes we don't use coffee enemas. Sometimes we use chlorophyll enemas or other type of enemas.
And that works too.
[00:23:47] Speaker C: Okay. And you just have people then, if they have that strong histamine reaction, then chlorophyll enemas is a safe bet. Or do you just have them kind of try and see which one that works well for them?
[00:24:02] Speaker D: We always start with the coffee enemas because they are the most effective.
You know, it helps the bile to get released. Coffee has a very strong action. It stimulates the portal vein in the large intestine and helps liver to squeeze and release those toxins. And that effect is the strongest.
But if they say, oh, they couldn't tolerate the weather because of coffee sensitivity, or maybe they have a high histamine reaction, then we try to maybe reduce the amount of coffee. And if that doesn't work, we go to chlorophyll enemas, which also work very well.
Any enema will have that detox effect on the liver. It's just not as much as coffee.
[00:24:59] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that's great. Yeah. It's such a, such a powerful tool and inexpensive, and it's, I always tell patients, you get the greatest bang for your buck when you incorporate something like that.
[00:25:14] Speaker D: Yeah, it's very good. Very good.
[00:25:18] Speaker C: And do you use any kind of antibiotics or anything? Or is it all just natural?
[00:25:25] Speaker D: All, no, no. People come to us having been on antibiotics for a long time and having seen all kinds of eyelids, doctors who treated them for Lyme, and sometimes people do well with those treatments, but a lot of times they might have gotten rid of Lyme, but they still have the symptoms and maybe they have. So people are confused because they still feel the same way. So they come to us and we treat them differently. And again, our philosophy is, you don't need to attack the infection. Attacking the infection itself is not the right way to approach this problem. You need to help the immune system, help the body to deal with the load, and then the body will take care of it by itself.
[00:26:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:27] Speaker D: And sometimes, and we do use herbs, again, to help, but again, it's not our. It's not what we put our bet on.
We believe in bodies own detoxification and healing abilities.
[00:26:47] Speaker C: And how do you determine whether they still have the infection and. Yeah, because you're saying their symptoms are just the same.
So how do you know if they still have the infection? And when do you determine to bring in a botanical versus just focusing on the health?
[00:27:07] Speaker D: So if somebody comes to us and they definitely know they have Lyme or have been diagnosed with Lyme, we look at their test that was done. We also do our own test, and if Lyme is definitely there, then we use the botanical.
If we believe the Lyme is not the problem anymore, but it's more of the other type of infections, then we might use a different botanical.
Depending on what's going on, we may use one or the other botanical, but we always incorporate some sort of botanical if there is some infection present.
[00:27:56] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, love it. And can you, do you have a couple of example stories of Lyme patients that have come to you that's been kind of in a bad spot and what their journey looked like and their outcome. So patients can. Yeah, people that are listening can just understand what's possible.
[00:28:18] Speaker D: Yes, yes.
So, you know, I can talk about one patient.
His name is Michael.
He was diagnosed with Lyme, went to see different doctors, was treated with antibiotics. Typical story.
Things got a little bit better, but then got worse again. He finally realized that he's just getting worse and it wasn't helping anymore, and the antibiotics were just causing more side effects than good. And so he came to see us and we put him on the protocol.
He did the protocol. We used certain herbs for him.
He also had candida infection, because most of the Lyme patients that when they come to see us, they typically have candida, because being on so many antibiotics over the years, people will have it, have candida.
And a lot of times, the candida symptoms actually overlap with Lyme symptoms. So sometimes you don't know which one, which one it is. But we treated him for Candida, we treated him for Lyme. He did detox protocols, changed the diet. He was actually. A lot of Lyme patients sometimes present as, by their symptoms, they look like they are carnivores, but they could be vegetarians.
Sometimes we change the diet a lot.
We may start with where they're at right now, or their digestive system may not tolerate raw foods, for example, they may need to eat more raw foods by their metabolic type, but they're not ready to do it because their digestive system is all shut down and they can't even tolerate a salad. So we start with where they're at, and we gradually assess them and move them towards where they would be the best. And so it took about six months until he actually was, I would say, 80% better, and then the other 20 was another, probably till the end of the year, and he was completely recovered.
[00:30:58] Speaker C: That's amazing. So what were some of the symptoms that Michael was dealing with?
[00:31:04] Speaker D: A lot of brain fog, fatigue, joint pain, couldn't play sports. He liked to play sports before. Couldn't play sports, couldn't travel.
You know, just. Life wasn't fun anymore. He was depressed, some joint pain, back pain, headaches.
So, yeah, those were the symptoms.
[00:31:30] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. That's incredible. And one year, I mean that. Yeah. The majority of Lyme patients, it's many, many, many years that they go through therapy. So one year, that's incredible.
Yeah, go ahead.
[00:31:47] Speaker D: They have to be dedicated, because this protocol is a lot in terms of, you know, you have to do your own work. So this is not the type of protocol where you go to the doctor, you get in the chair, you get the iv done. This is a protocol where you do a lot of your own protocol. You implement it in your own kitchen at home. You know, you prepare the foods, you make juices, you do detox. So, you know, I'm just there to guide them. But they are doing the protocol themselves.
[00:32:28] Speaker C: Yeah. That's amazing.
Do you have another story before we close?
[00:32:36] Speaker D: Sure. I can talk about a woman, you know, her name is Lisa, and so she had, her main Lyme symptom was she had splitting headaches, she had a lot of problems with her hormonal system. She couldn't get pregnant. That was her main thing. She wanted to get pregnant, and she didn't know she had Lyme, and so when she came in, her main issue was infertility.
But when I did evaluation and kind of dug deeper into that, found out she had Lyme.
So I put her on the protocol, and I told her that she needs to stop trying to get pregnant right now, because that's not a good time, and she needs to focus on the detox, on the protocol. And I said about two years. So I said at least two years. And so this is one. Sometimes with those infertility patients is a little bit hard to negotiate that time, because they're very. When they start that journey, they're very determined. They have to get pregnant. Usually, it's a little bit late in life, but she was one of the patients where she said, okay, I'll do whatever you say. And so, yeah, she did the protocol completely.
Everything was done to the point, diet, supplements, detoxification, and she actually got pregnant, and, like, about three years from the time she started the protocol.
[00:34:27] Speaker C: That's exciting. That's so exciting. And. And I. And the beauty is, obviously, that when you then are pregnant. Yeah. You're then able to really support the health of that child, because the terrain, the inside terrain of your body where the baby is developing is so much better and so much cleaner and so much more nutrition and less toxins that are going through the placenta into the baby. So. So that, that's really exciting.
[00:34:57] Speaker D: Yeah. Because a lot of babies sometimes, especially these days, a lot of them are born with Lyme already.
[00:35:05] Speaker C: I know that. Yeah, that. That's an issue. Yeah. Do you. Do you mind talking a little bit about that? Have. Have you.
Have you treated children that were born with Lyme?
[00:35:16] Speaker D: Yeah. So, a lot of times, children don't know they have Lyme, and, you know, it's the parent, because what happens is after. So the parent mother gives birth, and after childbirth, all of a sudden, she develops Lyme because it's a huge stress on the immune system. And before pregnancy, she might have been okay, she got pregnant. She didn't have any symptoms. But as you know, Lyme, sometimes it could be there, but it's waiting. It's waiting for when the immune system drops, whether it's a stress or some kind of event happens, pregnancy is a stress pregnancy delivery. And so some of these women develop Lyme or find out they have Lyme, and then through their own journey, they find out their children have Lyme.
And so, yes, I have treated those children.
[00:36:21] Speaker C: Great, great. And what are some of the symptoms that the children have when they're born with Lyme? Or could it be that they just have Lyme and they're just asymptomatic and it's still good to treat them.
[00:36:37] Speaker D: You know, it varies so much. Some of them could have no symptoms.
Again, it probably all depends on how much immunity they have and how resilient that baby is.
Maybe they not going to feel anything until they reach puberty. But some of the babies just colicky babies have food sensitivities.
Sometimes they just have problem concentrating later in school, school, things like adhd, skin issues, eczema.
All of these chronic illnesses could be a result of an infection, and Lyme could be one of them.
[00:37:24] Speaker C: Like, you have the terms pans pandas.
[00:37:29] Speaker D: That happens a lot. So children don't know, women don't know what that is. And it's pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric syndrome, which is caused by the pandas strap. But pans is any other infection. So in case of Lyme. Yes, Lyme can cause an infection and is a cross reaction. The infection crosses the blood brain barrier and can cause variety of symptoms.
And that is something that, you know, very much is prevalent here, especially in Connecticut. We see a lot of it here.
And so, yes, it's not easy to treat that because there's a lot going on between the mother and the child. And sometimes they go and look for conventional treatments, and if they take the wrong approach, it's not the wrong approach, but the way we see it is, is not how we practice. But they may choose to treat the child with a lot of antibiotics, and that further depletes their immunity. And so by the time they come to see us, the child is already 15, and that's a little harder. So it's always the sooner the better.
And children can really do this protocol, it may not be as intense, but you can do enemas, you can do detox to the kids, you can definitely feed them the right diet, you can definitely put them on some supplements. So this could all be implemented.
[00:39:15] Speaker C: Yeah. That's wonderful. And how do you do telemedicine as well? Right. So patients don't only have to come to Connecticut, they can connect with you and work with you through anywhere in the world?
[00:39:29] Speaker D: Yes, yes, yes. I do telemedicine.
[00:39:32] Speaker C: Yeah. That's exciting. And how. Where can people reach you? Where. Where are. What's the best way to connect with you?
[00:39:42] Speaker D: So I have a website. It's www.bigapplehealth.com. that's my website.
And they can go on the website and read about us and see what we do and I contact us through that.
[00:40:00] Speaker C: I love it. So, Big Apple, did you start in New York or where?
[00:40:04] Speaker D: So yes, I started in New York because I originally came, you know, I came to New York when I first came to America. I came to New York and I practiced in New York for a little bit and then I finally moved to Connecticut fully. I first had two practices in New York and Connecticut and then I just ended up in Connecticut full time.
[00:40:29] Speaker C: Okay. I love it. Well, Doctor Jan over this was amazing and it's really, really fascinating to hear Doctor Gonzalez program implemented in Lyme and it being so successful, so that this is really exciting.
[00:40:46] Speaker D: Yes, yes, it is exciting.
[00:40:48] Speaker C: Great. Well, thank you so much Doctor Janover. This was wonderful.
[00:40:52] Speaker D: Oh, it was my pleasure. Thank you.
[00:40:54] Speaker C: Thanks.
[00:41:02] Speaker A: The information this podcast is for educational purposes only and it's not designed to diagnose or treat any disease. I hope this podcast impacted you as it did me. Please subscribe so that you can be notified when new episodes are released. There are some excellent shows coming up that you do not want to miss. If you're enjoying these podcasts, please take a moment to write a review and please don't keep this information to yourself. Share them with your family and friends. You never know what piece of information that will transform their lives. For past episodes and powerful information on how to conquer Lyme, go to integrativelimesolutions.com and an additional powerful resource, limestream.com. for lime support and group discussions. Join the Lyme Conquerors mentoring Lyme warriors on Facebook if you'd like to know more about the cutting edge integrative of Lyme therapies MyCenter offers, please visit thecarlfeldcenter.com. thank you for spending this time with us and I hope to see you at our next episode of Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Karlfeldt.
