Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Integrative Lime Solutions with Dr. Carl Feld.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: I am so excited about the show that we have ahead of us. We have some phenomenal information that could save lives. I am Dr. Michael Carlfelt, and with.
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Me, I have my co host, Tanya Hobo.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: You're going to need to tune in to what's going on today. The information is unpacked. So, yeah, don't step away.
[00:00:29] Speaker C: So excited. Let's go ahead and get this started.
Welcome to Integrative Lime Solutions with Dr. Carl felt. And today, our guest is joining us all the way from Germany.
I had the pleasure of meeting him several years ago. He flew all the way into my hometown of Chico, California, to speak at one of our medical conferences. So it's nice to have him join us again and looking forward to kind of just catching up on the last many years, know, Lyme testing and so much going on in that field. And so we really appreciate you taking the time to join us. I know we're on different time zones for sure, so welcome to Armin, and I'm not going to even try to attack his last name, but he's the founder of Armin Labs in Augsburg, Germany, which is one of my very well trusted labs that I like. So welcome so much. Thanks for joining us.
[00:01:35] Speaker D: Thank you. And great, welcome to all listeners and especially to both of you, and give me the opportunity to talk about Lyme, which is the heart, it's my heart to care for Lyme patients. And.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Armin, I'm curious. There's so many. Somebody developing a lab first, that's a big endeavor. But then to focus on Lyme, and like you're saying, that is kind of your heart, your passion. How did it become that?
[00:02:07] Speaker D: It's a longer story.
I'm getting cray here now about this. It's a political story behind that. We know that chronic Lyme is not accepted in the guidelines of most of the doctors. They say chronic Lyme doesn't exist, and they trust in an Eliza test, which is a very cheap test.
It became famous by Freddie Mercury with HIV antibodies.
But for Lyme disease, for borrelia Bogdorphri, the pathogen for Lyme disease, let me say it's impossible because the complicated antigen, the antigen, the structure of this borrelia pathogen is so complicated, to fix it in a simple Eliza test. And if the eliza is negative, then the doctors all say, worldwide, lyme is excluded. Excluded because Eliza is negative. But Lyme is a clinical diagnose and a laboratory test diagnosed. That's the next challenge.
So the eliza brought me to the idea to care about better testing, and we have that. And this is where we came together for sure in your podcast. So we have the opportunity to do the cellular test, which is named the IlI spot test. We could also check for persistor forms, which is a good option. So persistor means persistent forms of Borrelia bogdorphri. They can persist in us as it is the spike protein for Saskov two, the same. The macrophages, they transport all over our bodies. These borrelia persistive forms. So it can go everywhere in your body as a passive, a lazy transport mechanism for borlia bogdorphra antigen. And then you have it in your body, you get an infection, you get the inflammation by that, you get an immune dysfunction by that. And then the question is, how strong is your immune system? How strong is your anti inflammatory capacity?
And maybe this pathogen, the borrelia bokdorfri, it's a bacteria, it's such a strong pathogen, so it attacks you very badly. So we get very sick within a short time. And the doctors, they don't believe in your symptoms. It's complicated because it can mimic every symptom in your body.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: I'm curious how, because since it can mimic everybody, and you're saying that it is a clinical judgment, you're looking at the disease picture and then you're thinking, well, this looks like Lyme, but can it also not be Lyme? Can it be like lupus? Can it be like, or is it always, when it is that complicated multisystem that it is Lyme?
[00:05:00] Speaker D: A very good question. In the beginning, we learned either it's Lyme disease or it's fibromyalgia or chronic fatigue, or lupus or whatever you name it. But we saw over the years that you could have both. You could have Lyme disease, which can cause lupus, or hashimoto's, or up to cancer, cleoplastoma. We know, Casey, so we know that Lyme could exist as a single illness, but it could be the reason for autoimmune disorders, for rheumatoid arthritis, as an example for multiple sclerosis. So you have both, you have Lyme disease plus multiple sclerosis, or you have multiple sclerosis based on Lyme disease, which gives you perfect option for antibiotic treatment to get rid of your multiple sclerosis like symptoms. So, because multiple sclerosis is not a description of different symptoms, but it's not to tell you what is the reason for that. I'm a doctor a medical doctor and laboratory doctor, I want to know always, what is the reason for that? And if I cannot find a reason, I'm not so happy because I cannot treat the reason. If you can treat the reason, you have options, and then you can improve the patient. What happens? Neurologists, rheumatologists, they hide behind their guidelines, and they say, no, Corey Glyme doesn't exist. So they exclude it by this Eliza, where we came from in this discussion. And so it doesn't make really sense to believe 100% in a laboratory test, you need other better tests for Lyme disease.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: The solution, then, because I know for all the people that are out there that deal with these complex disorders, and then you're kind of making this distinction in between, is it the disease with Lyme being present, or is it Lyme being the one causing the disease, or is it the disease by itself?
And then the Lysa test or western blot, the different test set that's available, it's not very effective, and it was not really designed for Lyme in itself, it sounds like.
So the test in itself is very faulty. So how would an individual then go about, they're dealing with these different issues, and how do they make the distinction? Do they just treat it as if it is Lyme and see if it responds? And if it doesn't respond, then it probably wasn't.
[00:07:43] Speaker D: Yeah. First of all, I think the Eliza is a very old test, old fashioned test, also ifa test or western blood test. Therefore, we started years ago with this ilispot test, which is a very sensitive cellular test. So we detect one to two cells in the bloodstream, and then we could say, oh, yes, there's cellular immune reaction, interfron gamma release essay, and then we can say, oh, it's currently active infection with borrelia bogdorfri, the pathogen for Lyme disease. If the patient is suffering from Lyme disease symptoms and Lyme disease, still you need to exclude other illnesses. That makes it tricky. You could not say, this is a Lyme disease patient because you have joint pain. It's impossible. You have different symptoms in a different constellation.
And test makes the probability that you suffer from Lyme disease. The Elispot test, I mean, now, not the Eliza. Eliza is bad test. It's not state of art tests to me, as you mentioned, it's just developed for scientific purpose, never for routine use. So it's very bad. And the western blood, the same. In chronic Lyme disease, we need the illspot test. And if it's positive and the patient has corresponding symptoms, you treat the patient, patient is getting better, hopefully. And then the illnessbot is getting negative, because two to three months after successful therapies, there's no cellular immune reaction, no interface gamma release, which is cytokine of th one system, which is a really important system to all of us for our natural immune defense. But nevertheless, if you have this interfone gamma positive test, then you have symptoms, you have pain, you have memory, four concentration, you are sick for sure. And that makes it complicated again with these co infections, because ticks are dirty needles and if you got bitten. We have learned, when I started 20 years ago, I thought everything is Lyme disease, but I learned more because ticks are dirty needles. And I learned about bartonella, I learned about babesia, I learned myself about the catsia. I was medical student in the 80s. We never heard anything about that. So it's a self teaching by others. So I learned from Boris Kano, I learned from Horowitz, I learned from Ray Sticker, I learned from eilets, which is, let me say, the only organization caring for Lyme disease in the right way, in my opinion. Also in Germany, you have the German Lyme Disease Society, 100 doctors coming together, because I name it, a system failure. In the systems, we say, we exclude Lyme disease with the wrong test. And the doctors, they are not educated and then they misdiagnose. And the patient got damaged over a while, because as you know, the infection, inflammation makes you sick as it is with long Covid. If the spike protein, again, this new model circulating around your body, it damages your body and your immune system.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: So can you expand a little bit about the spike protein? Because I think that's fascinating. So the borrelia, you're saying is a spike protein?
[00:10:50] Speaker D: No, it's a model. We are now in the model. It's not my own model. Also Jack Lambert in Ireland and he postulated a two eye model in the beginning. Now he's on the way to three eye model, three big eyes, and also CDC is on the way to that. We learned from the spike protein, because the same situation with Borlia bogdorphri, you could say Borrelia bogdorphri is similar to the spike protein, or rests. Antigens from this borillabokdorfri are circulating around your body, or maybe the persistor forms. This sleeping bacteria is circulating around your body and then it can penetrate in every organ system. So we could get everything.
But again, to the back to the model, I want to remember that where we are now on the way. And I think this is a way for the future of medicine, I'm pretty sure, because a lot of scientists coming now to me also to other experts for that, we have seen that we have in every patient we are treating now with fatigue, or fibromyalgia, or multiple sclerosis, whatever.
Let me say, nearly everybody has an infection which is reactivated, a reactivation of a virus, let me name it, turpus virus, chickenpox virus, ipstembar virus, CMV, Cytomegalovirus, coxucky, the gut viruses. We have this eye, this infection, opportunistic, reactivated, whatever it happened. And this is the first eye we need to treat. We need to treat the eye, the pathogen Lyme disease, we need to treat borrelia bocdorphri for sure. So that's the first thing, the first eye we need to diagnose and to treat. And the second eye for sure in all of this is the inflammation. Everybody has an inflammation with that. So we need to diagnose and treat the inflammation.
The third eye, what I postulated from the beginning is the immune system.
Because all of this depends on our individual immune system, on the gut. The gut is 80%, 90% of our immune system, we all know that. So we need, as an example, to treat the gut, we need to diagnose and treat the immune system. And this is not so complicated. But if you don't treat the infection, if you just do anti inflammatory diet as an example, or if you just do vitamin C, high dose infusions or oxygen, whatever, ozone, you do parts of this three eye therapy model. And so you will not win that battle. You will come to, I name it, a one way street into a dead end. And then it's the chapter and then they all come. Oh, Armin, do they have an infection? Maybe say yes, maybe they have a parasite. If you have a dog or a cat, you have a parasite, or you have yeast and mold or mycotoxins in your house, whatever. So you need the individual picture of individual patient. And then you don't have wonder concept for everybody. So one size fits all, it's not possible. We know that. But the three eyes, this is the future of medicine. I'm sitting here 100% because I know that. And we see that every day with a lot of doctors in our international networks. I have, I think, 2000 doctors sending me samples, discussing all over the world. So this is a challenge for me and my team, but also for others. And I'm happy that you help to bring it among the colleagues. And if you follow that way, you will have a great success. This is not the pharmacies, the pharmaceutical way, okay? Because it cannot work with a pharmaceutical way in antiinflammation, in immune dysfunction. So the corticosteroids, what I don't like, really, the immune suppressive remedies doctors are using, they are exactly contraindicated. They help you temporarily in stabilizing the cell membranes and antiinflammation, but you weaken the natural immune system. You weaken the gut. If you use antibiotics for years, you weakened, you destroy my gut. So when I was a young boy, I get penicillin without knowing that it was a virus infection. I had this coxucky virus, the herb angina. I lost my tonsils. My parents always gave me penicillin. In the 60s, they didn't know better. So that was my time. And now I'm so happy to know that it was, in my case, the herb angina. It's named by a gut virus which is in the kindergarten, in the schools, and in the families, transmitted high contagious. And so I had that for years with blisters in my mouth and not herpes simplex virus. And now I'm healthy, my gut is better. So I didn't know that. But when you're in a time frame, another time frame is coming in our.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: Lives, in your mind, because you have done the three. I model the infection, inflammation, and immune system. So what should be the first step for an individual looking at, looking for understanding what is the infection picture that I'm dealing with?
What is the first step to identify that?
[00:16:04] Speaker D: Exactly.
That's logical question. I asked the same question. And when I started with Lyme disease, I mentioned I was convinced everybody has Lyme disease, but we learned from Justin Bieber, the famous singer, that he suffered from Lyme disease. Plus, I think it was varicella soster virus reactivation. He had this remse Hunt syndrome at the same time. Okay, you could now say, was it Lyme disease coming before the immune system was suppressed in this case, because the antibiotics, for sure, you need to treat infection, that's pretty clear for bacteria like Lyme. We have a lot of antibiotics. We could try that out.
But the problem is, to be honest, every patient has an individual pathogen profile. So I'm profiler. So this is my job. Like a lawyer. I ask patients, which symptoms do you have? Or the doctors ask that question, and then the patient this, what is the history?
Did you have a tick bite? Did you had cats with cat scratches? So these are all some key questions. And therefore, because nobody knows in these infectious diseases. I developed myself, I think, 15 years ago, the co infection checklist, that was before Horowitz started with his multisystemic checklist. I said, yes, why not to differentiate clinically, because I'm clinician with key questions for different symptoms. The patients filling out that checklist, it's free, no costs, no cost, nothing. We have a parasite checklist, we have a long Covid checklist, we have a Lyme disease checklist, and we have a co infection checklist and a multi system infection checklist. So also with yeast and mold on it. So it depends. If you ask me, Armin, I want to be checked for Lyme disease and co infections. Okay, don't check for all co infections. It doesn't make really sense because first ask, do you have barbezia, which makes night sweat, or so it's malaria like, or if you have a stria, then you had a cat, then it's batonella. So I developed this checklist, patient filling out, and then you can see which infection, how many symptoms in this individual patient are expressed in this patient by which infection, and then it's a ranking, it's artificial intelligence behind that in the program. So this is the way we could work with that, and believe me, then we test the patients for the position ranked one, two, three infections, maybe Lyme disease, maybe bartonella, maybe alicia anablasma, maybe glamudia pneumonia. It's most common in the world. Then we check for this and then we find it, because the symptoms are corresponding and then there's a high probability that the patient is suffering, in reality, from this illness. We name it in medicine, the prediction, the predictive value. So we need the clinicians, but we could work a lot with standardized checklists for sure, in different fields, environmental medicine, cancer, autimune disorder. But it's a hard work with this artificial intelligence checklist. But we can do that in the parasite checklist, the same. So we find more and more toxicarda Carnis with the dogs, it has to do, which makes neuropsychiatric symptoms. We have toxoplasmosis more and more. So we learned ourselves by that, that not everything is Lyme disease. Lyme, to me, in chronic illnesses, just Lyme doesn't exist.
It's not just Lyme, it's more than that, or it's not Lyme, it's something different. It's a different infection. And the people believe in Lyme. This also challenge to say, no, it's not Lyme disease. This is a Lyme disease symptom. But it's an overlapping symptom, maybe to rickettia or to, let me name it again, coxaki virus. It makes the same symptoms. How can you differentiate it clinically? And then you need the laboratory. Okay, this is where I am here, and earning money by that. But you need some positive results, and then you can treat, you know, the direction. Some doctors, they say, we don't need you because we know the checklist. Telling me the story. It's now Bartonella on position two. It's Lyme position one. So I treat these conditions, but you don't have a control check. What was before, was the illuspot positive for Bartonella? Was it maybe negative? It was not Bartonella active that time. You thought it was Bartonella. So laboratories are helpful tools like radiologists doing their jobs, but we need to correlate always with the symptoms, and this is the way we are doing, and we are very successful in this.
[00:20:50] Speaker C: That's great to hear. So, if somebody wanted to get testing through your labs, is the first thing that they would do, is go on and fill out these checklist forms, and then do you help guide them as to what testing to be done? And is that something that the patient can do by themselves, or do they need to utilize a doctor to get testing through you?
[00:21:13] Speaker D: If you have an experienced doctor, it's the best, but believe me, not all doctors are experienced.
[00:21:19] Speaker C: Yeah, that's why some people can't get them.
Yeah.
[00:21:23] Speaker D: Sorry to say that. Nothing against the colleagues. I was in the same situation.
It's a full time job. I'm doing nothing else. And if you want to do it beneath your routine, if you're cardiologist or your surgeon, you don't have the time to do that. Speaking medicine and a lot of hard working time, we all need for this. Yeah, they can send me the checklist or my team, and then we give a direction. We say, okay, we interpret this. We recommend these tests. So you need the chlamydia test, you need the Rickettsia test. And then they ask, which tests? Okay, we help also on this to explain why is an alisbot better than an IfA test for Rickettsia? Why is it laboratory better to use modern cellular tests as an example? Why the persistor forms? And so. And we help, and then we can send the patients to the doctors, and we have developed special test kits. We name that. Now, some laboratories copy that, like chinese model, and they also send it to their customers. And then doctors or nurses take the blood, send it to Germany. It's easy way. We have one, two, three days logistics, and that's fine. And then we send the results, and if the doctors are not so helpful, we have some networks with an internal list of therapies cooperating in Canada, America, and as an example, South Africa, Italy, Germany. So, and we say, okay, maybe you can do your own therapy if you think you know more than your doctor, to be honest, the GPs, they are a weak pearl in the pearl chain. They are very weak in the knowledge with the time.
So we need some expert level, and we have experts for sure, they are treating the whole day, Lyme disease and co infections, nothing else. Although it's not covered by normal health insurances, this way is not, in every country in the world, not paid by normal health insurance. We are little outsiders of this system.
We are the Davids in the system, but we can give a direction. We find out what is active, and then the patient has options and the patient has chances, and we never give up with that.
I think in every patient we find infection, then we say, go this way, treat this way, and also we help and try to educate the doctors. We do webinars and training courses. We cannot do more, but it still drops on hot stones. It's not so easy to educate within five minutes, Lyme disease or co infection, or viruses or parasites. No. Therefore, you need really a background situation, and we support in the background this.
[00:24:19] Speaker C: That's awesome. So this might be a good time to ask this question, because I try to express it out into the lime world through social media and stuff. I got my diagnosis in 2015, so we're talking nine years ago, and I tell people all the time that we've come so far with so many things in Lyme disease, including testing, and a lot of these people, they kind of don't believe me. They're like, no, this is just a hot mess of a disease. Right? And it is. But in your opinion, how much have things changed in, just, say, the last decade, especially as far as getting proper testing and being able to kind of navigate through that?
[00:25:05] Speaker D: This is against the hippocratic oath, to accept the opinion of Davids like us, against the Goliaths, against the guidelines and neurologists, rheumatologists, it's a political thing in the end, patients suffering from it. So let me say, so it has not changed the last two decades to say it's politically more accepted, it's more attacked. So in Sweden, there was a doctor lost the license, Kenneth Sunstrom was his name, or is his name in Norway, Dr. Ralfleng lost his license just because they say we're treating chronic Lyme in Sweden. Horrible situation. Norway, Scandinavia is really horrible. Denmark, Australia is horrible. This depends a little on the systems, how they work. They work strongly with guidelines, and in these guidelines, chronic Lyme is not respected. So it's blocked. It's completely blocked. It's politically, because we did a lot of studies, papers, scientific work. This is also blocked. So they block, block, block.
We don't know why they block, because it doesn't make really sense to help patients. And I think also a problem is to understand that this is a holistic approach. It's a multi systemic illness, as you mentioned, Michael, in the beginning. So this is not just to ask some easy question, and that's it. You need to differentiate with other reasons, with hormonal or environmental reasons, for illnesses, or combination of that. It's really complicated, interdisciplinary, because sporilla can attack the nerve system, the heart, the brain, the joints, the tendons, it can go everywhere. The skin, it can go everywhere. So that makes it so complicated for doctors and to accept, to understand. But why it is. I think we came a little forward with better tests. We have now this illispot. We have the ispod corresponding next generation illispot tests. We have the persistor forms, the tickplex basic and tickplex plus test. Really good, Eliza. So we have some improvements, but we are not there where we want to go. We need to change the situation that we little Davids are the majority opinion and the goal. Yes, they will come in on the defense. Sometimes it's like a battle.
[00:27:43] Speaker B: Do you feel that the Davids have evolved during these last ten years?
The labs have they've gotten better? Have they gotten, or is that kind of at a standstill as well, still problematic?
[00:28:01] Speaker D: I think we need the younger generation now, because we are getting older. There was the first generation of Lyme experts. That was Willie Borgdorfer coming in the. But the next generation of students, they are not educated in the complexity of holistic medicine. They are just educated in symptoms. And to say, this is Eno's throat, this is the eye doctor, this is the cardiologist, this rheumatologist, this psychiatric doctor. But the interdisciplinary, the knowledge without the Wi Fi, the Internet, all we have now here that didn't exist my student time. So we are more educated by books and bring it into our own brain. Nowadays you google Wikipedia and you Google, and then you know, and then you check, and then you find direction of different opinions. That was not possible. So the whole body medicine we need the holistic back to the roots. Coming back to the roots. Also in treatment, this is the same in diagnostic, and it's a whole body we are treating. It's not just the eyes where borrelia can do some problems flickering or so, or double vision, or whatever you see, or the neuropathy. For a neurologist, Borlia, it's so complicated, but all the other viruses makes it more complicated. Parasites. And if everybody has different infections acquired during his lifetime, reactivation immune system is getting worse over the years. So I see options, but I think it's really a challenge for all of us.
[00:29:40] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so many things have changed. But yes, like you said, we just have so much further to go. And I really wish that we would have more holistic treating doctors out there that can take the time to learn and want to know about this, because I'm sure that there's a lot of doctors out there. They're like, no, there's no cut and dry anything with Lyme disease. Like we don't want to have anything to do with it. But we need these doctors. We need them to step up and educate themselves on different ways to treat and attack, not just Lyme, the co infections, the parasites, the mold, the whole thing.
[00:30:21] Speaker D: Exactly.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: And I see the challenge even in my field in naturopathic medicine, that it is trying to align itself with the medical profession, where it is also you have this disease, or this symptom and this drug, or this herb, or this. Instead of understanding the holistic picture and understand the complexity of things, they're becoming very simple, directional in their treatment as well. So I agree with you that that is a huge challenge.
[00:30:59] Speaker D: In the end, whatever helps it help, and was the right step. So this is hippocratic oath also, whatever helps. It need not to be a pharmacy. It need not to be a knife. A surgeon of pharmaceutical products. Very ancient hippocratic oath. 3000 years. Over 3000 years. But it's the truth. And also to respect the opinion of the collect. It's also in the hippocratic oath to respect it. Not to say you're a skeleton, because you're doing holistic approach. You're a skeleton. No, you help the patient, but you have the knowledge, you have the experience, you have the mission, you have your heart in this. And the other surgeon could do this surgery, but also Lyme disease, if it's not diagnosed, you do a surgery on the CTS, capal tunnel syndrome, and it's an infection. So it doesn't make sense for a surgeon to do surgery in a Lyme disease situation with a capal tunnel. So this sounds ridiculous, but that means that we need to work together and to respect each other. We do respect in sports, but we don't do it in Lyme disease. Among the colleagues.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: Yeah, earlier talked. It always comes also to once you identify how do you treat. And obviously you're more in the diagnostic field rather than the treatment field, but you also communicate a lot with doctors all over the world.
You talked about the collateral damage of antibiotic.
Is that still a treatment of choice in your mind, or is more the botanicals? And you talked about vitamin C. I know. Silver, a number of people do. Ozone, then silver and all these different other modalities that are out there.
[00:32:57] Speaker D: Yeah. First of all, you need to know what to treat. If you have just borrelia bogdorphra infection, try out antibiotics, why not? So I cured my first multiple sclerosis patient with rosephine ceph trixone within three weeks in 2005. Cured until nowadays. So all symptoms, blindness, neuro, all went away. So no neuropsychiatric, it can work. But what we saw the last, let me say, before crisis, before corona, we found out that a lot of patients suffering from opportunistic viruses, especially worldwide, number one virus is the coxaki virus and the echo virus, the gut viruses. This number one infection in the world, chronic fatigue me virus, cardiotropic heart driven problems, cognitive arthritis.
So it mimics fatigue virus, it mimics the same as it is with Lyme disease.
And if you find viruses in the complexity of the holistic approach, you need to treat the virus. So normally you're not allowed to use an antibiotics in this case, okay, because antibiotics weaken your immune system. What happens? Your CD three cells, your helper cells going down, and then a bunch of viruses is reactivated, the herpes on the lips, the chicken box, therpestoster, like it was with a vaccination. Now we see a lot of reactivation of viruses. This is a challenge now for us. And also corona did this. It weakened our immune system. And by this time, I find so many ebv epshembar virus infection, reactivation and Lyme disease. It's not just this Justin Bieber guy with a virus. Let me say every patient with Lyme disease has a virus. So the way is now how to go on this. Antibiotics don't work alone.
You know it. As a medical doctor, I know that.
But you could use virostatic, valacyclovir, gunsychlovir, all of this ovirus, you can try out virostatics you can try it. Some patients are improving by that. It's still a chemistry. It's a chemical drug. It's a chemical world. We are now with antibiotics and these virostatics. So my approach, my own approach, because I got so many antibiotics my whole life. In the chicken, you eat the antibiotics in the drinking water. If your antibiotics, you get a lot of antibiotics, believe me, and other stuff in your food, but you don't know.
And then you damage the gut. And the problem is this dysbiosis, so that if you use just antibiotics, you damage the gut and to repair it, it's not so easy. And in the gut, we have this gut viruses, coxucky and echo virus, and sometimes here, xenia and camplobacter, if you eat pork and so, or chicken, and then we have the bunched infection in the gut additionally. So this is not the way my approach is now more treating viruses, treating the immune system, treating the inflammation with herbs and with transfer factors and immune support, as you mentioned also on vitamin C, sink, vitamin D in combination with vitamin k one. So I'm also a medical doctor, I know how it works, and in different groups. I have some of my own patients, but not so many. We do detox because the viruses EBV, CMV, coxaggy, they are all in the liver. And so we need a detox. They have lymph nodes swollen. We need to treat the lymphatic flow. We need sometimes lymph lymphatic for that. We need to detox the lymphatic system. Very important.
What we know nowadays, inflammation. We have in every of these patients, the coagulopathy. So they develop cold hands, cold fingers.
There's a shift from anticoagulopathy to coagulopathy. And then you have more this thrombosis.
And we learned that from Saskov two again. So a lot of patients got thrombosis, but it's pretty clear because the antigenity makes this with cytomegalovirus, with spike protein. So it's circulating in your blood, and then you get these cold fingers, but this is not good. And you use your oxygen or oxygenation or what you mentioned oson therapy. It's absolutely helpful, but it's not treating the reason. We need to treat the reason. And that was my challenge, my own case, to mention that. So I said, what can we do against viruses? Every doctor told me, no, I cannot do anything. Virstatics, maybe that's it. And then I cared about Stephen Puner. He died, unfortunately, last year. I cared about Dietrich Klinghard. I cared about Cowden, and yeah, what I favorite myself. But is this my option, my way? I take a lot of herbs as an example. Bundrol, cemento, cumanda, stevia, mora, takuna, hotunia, which is a perfect herb in Stephen Puner's book against gut viruses. But still, you need to know what to treat. My story is a gut virus story. Other patients have similar or different viruses or different parasites, so we need to know what to treat. But not everything is Lyme disease.
I have the flag of Lyme disease still here on my table, but to me, for myself, it's more, it's Lyme plus or so, and we need to know what to treat. And then we go more back to the roots again, to the naturopathy way, like you are doing, and then you will win this battle with a patient, you have options, you have chances. And the patients, you are overbooked, you guys. I know that the clinics, they all come to you because you are these experts. You can treat the viruses, you can treat it by natural pathways. You don't destroy the immune system. Corticosteroids destroy your immune system. We can measure that natural killer cells going down. And so we need a balanced th one, th two. Also, we work a lot with messengers, transfer factors, colostrum. We give also some options if the atp is missing, but still so long the infection is active, and you don't know that an infection is active and you don't treat the infection, you will not.
[00:39:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's so important to kind of do it in a very methodical way. And obviously, as a clinician, you have to evaluate where the patient is. You can't just start, this is what we got to do. And then this you got to see, is the patient weak, and where's their hormonal system? If we go after the infection, are they able to deal with that? What are their detox pathways and gut, how are they absorbing nutrients, processing nutrients, and how much lps is being circulating the bloodstream? And there's so many factors to address all the time, but exactly what you're saying, it's so important to understand then the disease picture what is the terrain, what are you looking at, what kind of infections? And that's what's so great with labs like yourself, to be able to give people that tool and that option to know what to go after. So they don't just blindly go after Lyme because they think they have Lyme.
[00:40:23] Speaker D: Yeah, I forgot one thing to mention. Sorry about that. What we need nowadays and what we need to do is treating biofilms. We know now that this coagulopathy is a sludge.
A lot of these pathogens, like chlamydia, when you spit out, when you have a cold, you spit it out. It's a biofilm, a communication, a protection area of these pathogens. Also, borrelia is doing chlamydia, mycoplasma, klebsiella, in the gut. So we have all of these biofilms. So we don't have a biofilm test. Maybe it will come, but we need to treat the biofilms for sure. So, biofilm breakers very important to me. Drink a lot, nutrition also. You could do it in cheap ways to change also your inflammatory situation. But if you have the wrong nutrition and you have a bad nutrition, if you eat pork, if you eat steaks, if you eat noodles, pasta, I think it's not so good for your gut. And the sugar, the alcohol, yeah, this makes it problematic. I think easy way is to work on the gut again, the gut, 89% of immunity. You help yourself, you feel better, so you can work with anti inflammatory diet. There are good books about that, but still, the family needs to do that. And as you know, the kitchens are not so good as they were 2030 years ago. Maybe there's a lot of microplastics also now in the fish, and you eat it up, and the sludge in your vessels and goglobatha, you can imagine what's happening. The aluminum, which you eat up, the microwaves, 5g, there's a lot of bad stuff around us. You cannot live in a healthy bowl. But I think the easiest step I did myself, no wheat, no gluten, no sugar, no chocolate, no sweets, no hamburgers, nothing like that. Healthy nutrition, like basic, we name it basic. Water, also no gas in the water, no wine, nothing where you give sugar to yourself, no ice cream. But this is our lifestyle, you know, the lifestyle works against us and shortens our lives because we shorten our lives, because we know that from studies also that the life expectation is not such a high one now it's getting down. But who wonders the stressing factors, the cortisol, the hormonal access, adrenaline, dopamine. You can do a lot with this, but I think it's too easy to start with a good nutrition, antiinflammatory diet, broccoli, whatever you have there, onions, garlic, cucumin. You can do a lot of this with the teas and so chinese plants, whatever you're doing, Artemisia, artemisinin, so we have a lot of Artemisia afra. I prefer now we are working on some projects for that, not Artemisia Anwar Afra is much better. Working also in Barbezia and malaria infection. We know that from different studies from Africa. And so we can do a lot with the nature and the nature is our friend, let me say so. Although maybe they will kill me. The pharmacies are not so our friends. You get one pill for your pain and then you get another pill for your gut because the painkiller destroys your gut and is doing more. H. Pylori so this is the story behind that. The pharmacies cannot be the solution for very attensive care medicine for the hospitalized patients. I think we need this for sure. We rescue a lot of lives with that, but not for the chronic patient. That's a different world. Completely different.
[00:44:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, that's a challenge. Well, Dr. Armin, I know that we can chat forever and you're such a wealth of information, and I really appreciate you coming on and chatting about this very complex issue.
And I really enjoyed because the listeners get to understand that it's just much more than just borrelia. It's such a complex, interrelated situation and to unravel that requires very systematic steps. So thank you so much for taking this time.
[00:44:56] Speaker C: Yes, thank you very much. We really appreciate it. You gave us lots of great information, so thank you so much.
[00:45:02] Speaker D: Thank you. It was a compromise information. And the end last sentence, Borrelia is a starter. The menu is coming later.
[00:45:12] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:45:14] Speaker B: What is the dessert?
[00:45:18] Speaker D: That's a good question. I don't know what it is.
[00:45:22] Speaker C: That'll be on our next call.
[00:45:24] Speaker B: It is to be seen. Yeah. Great. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Armand.
[00:45:28] Speaker D: Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you.
[00:45:37] Speaker A: The information this podcast is for educational purposes only and it's not designed to diagnose or treat any disease. I hope this podcast impacted you as it did me. Please subscribe so that you can be notified when new episodes are released. There are some excellent shows coming up that you do not want to miss. If you're enjoying these podcasts, please take a moment to write a review and please don't keep this information to yourself. Share them with your family and friends. You never know what piece of information that will transform their lives. For past episodes and powerful information on how to conquer lime, go to integrativelimesolutions.com and an additional powerful resource, limestream.com. For lime support and group discussions. Join Tanya on Facebook at Lyme Conquerors mentoring Lyme warriors. If you'd like to know more about the cutting edge integrative of Lyme therapies my center offers, please visit thecarlfillcenter.com. Thank you for spending this time with us, and I hope to see you you at our next episode of Integrative Lyme Solutions with Dr. Carl Fallon.
