[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Integrative Lyme solutions with Doctor Karl felt.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: I am so excited about the show that we have ahead of us.
[00:00:08] Speaker A: We have some phenomenal information that could save lives. I am Doctor Michael Karlfeld, and with me I have my co host, Tanya Hobo.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: You're gonna need to tune in to what's going on today. The information is jam packed, so, yeah, don't step away.
[00:00:29] Speaker C: So excited. Let's go ahead and get this started.
Welcome to Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Carl Feldt. And today we've got a great nature path doctor joining us, and gosh, you can't really get any closer to the start of it. Coming all the way from Connecticut to join us is Doctor Sean Carney. Thank you so much for joining us and welcome.
[00:01:00] Speaker D: Thank you, folks. Thank you for having me.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: Yeah, you're really at ground zero almost, you know. Yeah, that's where the big ticks are born. And then they travel all over the place or, oh, my gosh, wait a.
[00:01:13] Speaker C: Minute, do they don't travel, they don't cross borders?
[00:01:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I forgot about that once. There's a state line that, oops, can't go there. Yeah.
[00:01:24] Speaker D: I tell so many of my patients and we're out on the border with New York, I say, just living in Connecticut or New York is a risk factor.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:01:33] Speaker D: Sad but true.
People are like, oh, I don't go hiking. It was like, you don't need to go hiking, you just need to walk in your garden.
[00:01:40] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I actually had a conversation with a lady earlier today. Nothing to do with Lyme disease, but we were just talking about holistic things and, you know, big pharma and, yeah, here we are on a lime podcast. Right. But anyways, our conversation kind of went down to the ticks in how I said, you know, I got bit in my front yard in California and, you know, gosh, a couple summers ago, same thing in my yard, I saw a tick. She couldn't believe there was a tick in Idaho and it was coming from somebody who I really aligned with. Right. Like in this traditional field. And you get sick, don't go to the doctor, you know, find other remedies. And it was just shocking to me how many people literally don't think that there's ticks in every state. It just blows my mind. Blows my mind.
[00:02:26] Speaker D: And even clinicians here in Connecticut, many of the clinicians still really heavily bound by the IDSA guidelines and not thinking outside the box, still giving the single dose of an antibiotic approach, never heard of eyelids, you know, it's just amazing.
[00:02:47] Speaker C: It really is.
[00:02:48] Speaker D: It's unfortunate, but, you know, you got to try to roll with the punches.
That's what we do.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's. Yeah, all. Everyone dealing with lime. I mean that. Exactly. You gotta kind of figure out how to survive the environment.
Yeah, so how. Yeah, I'm curious about that, actually. What is the kind of mentality in the medical profession and then also, probably also in the integrative profession regards to Lyme and how it should be treated and the prevalence and, you know, the different ailments that are out there presenting themselves and are they blind related or not Lyme related?
[00:03:31] Speaker D: How long is this podcast?
[00:03:34] Speaker C: Apparently that was a loaded question.
[00:03:39] Speaker D: Thankfully, many of the integrative practitioners, like myself, being also a naturopathic physician.
[00:03:47] Speaker E: I.
[00:03:47] Speaker D: Think a lot of us have come into this space to deal with cases that the conventional system has been turning their back to, ones that don't fit the neat little insurance model of just give me a simple diagnosis with a seven minute follow up or initial meeting, you know, for like 20 minutes or whatever it is. Right.
And the cases that are just, you know, they're not going to be as concise for just a simple diagnostic code.
And so my own journey into this actually started as a, my undergraduate, I was a double major, environmental science and philosophy, and my very first field tech job, this is back in, should I be embarrassed to say, back in 1999 and. Or. Yeah. And so my very first field tech job was catching ticks, doing population surveys of ticks for Fordham University. They actually had us walking around with meter square carpets, white carpets. We were all dressed as like, painters with masking tape around her ankles. And we're doing population surveys in multiple counties, counting the number of ticks. So, you know, and not just the nymphs and the adults, but sometimes even the larva. Can you imagine? Can you imagine? So, like, you know, and back then, right, so obviously this was well known because going into environmental science, where was the money? Where's the funding? It's in public. It was in public health, where there's identified problems.
But although that level of understanding was there, and since then, in terms of prevalence, there's so many contributing factors.
There's the habitats where many people's yards, it's mowed, and then it's on the border of a forest that's prime tick habitat, going all the way through the leaf litter.
There's the deer populations in my state. I mean, 100 years ago, they were an all time low of like 50,000 but just for perspective, I think around 2000 it was like 30 million.
[00:06:09] Speaker E: 30 million.
[00:06:10] Speaker D: Yeah. 50,000 to 30 million in 100 years.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: In Connecticut.
[00:06:15] Speaker D: In Connecticut. This is Connecticut. Yeah. Our dep statistics I have. Yeah, I have this laid out in my. Had no idea in the ebook that I had done.
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:26] Speaker D: So most people don't, you know, don't understand and underestimate. Although you guys have the elk. Cause I did spend a summer in, outside in the Boise national forest. You guys have some pretty cool elk running around out there.
[00:06:37] Speaker C: But we have a lot of deer. Like a lot of people travel to, you know, Idaho and Oregon to go hunting and stuff. I have a lot of my family hunts and so we have a lot over here. And I kind of. But I guess, you know, that's our misconceptions about things like people think that ticks are only in Connecticut. You know, people think. I think deer and elk are only in Idaho and Oregon. I don't know, but that is kind of shocking that you have that many there.
[00:07:03] Speaker D: Well, right. And so, you know, why is that relevant? Because it's part of the ticks life cycle. And so as part of the Ticks life cycle, it's allowed them to, you know, continue to propagate. And there was some research done on isolated islands where when they culled all the deer, the incidence of ticks went down. I mean, the climate change. Right. As the climate's gotten warmer, ticks have been able to spread. They've spread well into the northeast and Canada. I mean, regions, regions in the northeast, Maine, New Hampshire. We know where Babesia was and babesiosis was not endemic. Within the last ten to 15 years, they are having the number of cases similar and equal to endemic states.
We connecticut ourselves within the last couple of years, we've now got resident colonies of two types of different southern ticks, like an asian longhorn tick and asian longhorn. Yeah, I have to double check the name, but yeah, I mean, so these things have been, you know, because of the climate change, they've been able to spread and.
[00:08:09] Speaker C: Right.
[00:08:10] Speaker D: And so you've got parts of their life cycle that are increasing in population and people are moving more into prime habitat for them without protecting themselves. And so, which is really unfortunate.
[00:08:23] Speaker B: Yeah. So tell me a little bit, what, what are for listeners? I mean, what are some of the prime habitats and what are kind of areas you should be concerned about if you're out walking about? I mean, you said if you're, you know, I have a mowed lawn, you had leaves, and then you have a forest right behind you and, you know, they lurk in the leaves and attack you when you walk by.
[00:08:46] Speaker D: Yeah, I've done a couple blogs on this topic, so on our website, when folks are welcome to hit that, and then we've got an e book also that gets in, outlines a lot of this type of information because the number of cases is, continues to be staggering and going up, but in terms of the habitat. So ticks thrive where there's moisture and a shade cover. Too much heat is unfavorable to them. So that kind of leaf litter and like around the house, the barberry bushes and spend. Right, and rodents are the earliest parts on their life cycle where they'll change from the larvae to the nymph. And so, and that's where a lot of them first get the, and get these infections. You know, they'll, they'll get it off the rodents before they bite us or, or the deer. But.
So if you can minimize some of those types of areas, the pachysandra, the ground cover that people use. Right. So the rodents are in there. Well, guess who are on the rodents, right? So you want to get all that kind of stuff away from the house.
[00:09:49] Speaker E: Hello, dear listeners, this is Doctor Michael Karlfeldt, your host of integrative lime solutions. Today I'm excited to share an exclusive opportunity from the Karlfeld center, where we blend healing power of nature with groundbreaking therapies to combat Lyme disease and its associated challenges. At the Karfeld center were not just fighting Lyme, were revolutionizing the way its treated with cutting edge therapies like photodynamic therapy, full body ozone iv therapy, silver iv's, brain rebalancing, autonomic response testing, laser energetic detoxification, and more. We aim to eradicate Lyme. Our approach is comprehensive, supporting your body's immune system, detoxification processes, hormonal balance and mitochondrial health, ensuring a holistic path to recovery. Understanding Lyme disease and its impact is complex, which is why we're offering a free 15 minutes discovery call with one of our Lyme literate naturopathic doctors. This call is your first step towards understanding how we can personalize your healing journey, focusing on you as a whole person, not just your symptoms. Our team, led by myself, Doctor Michael Karlfilz, is here to guide you through your recovery with the most advanced diagnostic tools, individualized treatment plans and supportive therapies designed to restore your health and vitality. Whether you're facing Lyme disease head on or seeking preventative strategies, we're committed to your wellness. Take the first step towards reclaiming your health. Visit
[email protected] or call us at 208-338-8902 to schedule your free discovery, call at the Karfeld center. We believe in healing naturally, effectively, and holistically. Thank you for tuning in into integrative lyme solution with doctor Karl Feld. Remember, true health is not just the absence of disease, it's achieving the abundance of vitality. Let's discover yours together.
[00:11:50] Speaker D: Just adding a three foot perimeter around the edge of your property, at least at my house, we had about a 50% reduction on the number of ticks that were on the kids and the pets. Three foot perimeter of like a bark mulch, something that the ticks are not going to go out of the leaf litter, out of the forest and cross. And then things like putting up, throwing your clothes in the dryer for just ten minutes after being in an area where you're more likely to encounter ticks that's been shown to kill the ticks.
It's great to. You put them in the washing machine. And when I was a kid, we didn't even have to do that because the numbers have continued to go up. It's been such a problem.
Just a few years ago, the CDC changed their numbers of cases.
There's what's reported versus what's diagnosed. So the CDC, there's an old stat floating around for more than ten years now about how for 35,000 reported cases, the CDC came out and said that there was 300,000 diagnosed, but that statistic got redone to 475,000 cases being diagnosed annually. This is just diagnosed annually, right. These numbers are not going down, they're just going up. And of course, for anyone on this podcast or listening to this podcast, they know that a lot of cases aren't even being diagnosed appropriately. So, you know, we can assume that number is low.
[00:13:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a challenge is that, you know, for everyone that we're talking to here, I mean, it takes some of them like 20 years to get a. Get a diagnosis, and these are the ones that were lucky to get a diagnosis. So here you're talking about 435,000 that did get diagnosed. That means. And I'm.
I don't know, it sounds almost like everyone has Lyme. Yeah, I mean, they do.
[00:13:53] Speaker C: The majority of the population, I believe, is walking around with Lyme disease. I say this all the time, but their immune system can't handle it. I think it's the first problem, and then the other people just can't get diagnosed.
[00:14:03] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. And tanya, I mean, you're. You're hitting the nail on the head, right? There was the British Medical journal in 2022, right? They had that study, 14% of the world's population shown to have serologic evidence of seroprevalence of Lyme disease. 14% of the human population's highest concentrations were Asia and Europe.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Oh, so that's why we had mainstream.
[00:14:28] Speaker D: This is peer review. This is not like naturopathic foo foo.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: So that's why we. Everything.
[00:14:33] Speaker C: Naturopathic is foo foo, right? Fuhu and all that stuff.
[00:14:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Weight, feathers. Yeah.
[00:14:41] Speaker C: Trust me, I say it all the time. When I met doctor Karl felt several years ago, I immediately called my mom. Mom, I just met, like, this voodoo doctor. I don't know what he's doing. I don't know what he's all about. And then here we are all these years later. So you figure out how well it went?
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's giving me the herbs.
[00:15:01] Speaker C: And this thing called muscle testing. Like, are you kidding me? Really? Do you think I'm stupid?
[00:15:06] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. You might as well just pull my finger, you know?
[00:15:11] Speaker D: Well, tell the patients. Remember, it was the witch doctor that helped you.
[00:15:15] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. You want to get better? Go find a witch doctor. Yeah, I know the truth.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: So, yeah, that's insane. So what do you see? I mean, when you obviously patient come to me or come to you, what do you see when the patient population that come to you and how many of them do you've. Do you diagnose with Lyme and how do you go about doing that?
[00:15:43] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's a great question. You would just assume coming out of Connecticut, that other practitioners, that the general population, have a strong awareness level around it, but that's really not the case. I've been practicing 13 years and it is just as uphill, sadly now as it was when I started.
Yes, there are activist groups and conferences, and health fair is dedicated to this topic because there's nonprofit groups in the state, but often it's a kind of self selecting group that's going to them. They're preaching in the choir kind of scenario. So we'll have.
People will come to me because they've had trouble with antibiotics. They can't stay on antibiotics. So there's the educated folks that educated in this topic. But then just within the last couple of weeks. Within the last, what, two, three weeks, I can think of a couple anxiety cases, ADHD cases.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:47] Speaker D: So 40% of our patients are pediatric, so we'll get a lot of ADHD and mood, behavior problems, kids acting out at home and school. And sometimes the changes came on abruptly, and they might get a label of something like ADHD. But as a naturopathic physician, we're trying to restore balance and proper function. We're trying to understand what's taking the body out of alignment and using the constituents of the body, using the least invasive ways possible to restore that balance.
So, you know, a person might come in with a label, but, you know, we're not looking to treat the label. We're looking to see, you know, what is. How is the house out of order? What's going on with neurotransmitters? What's going on with nutrient deficiencies? You know, let's run organic acids. Oh, and by the way, you know, is this inflammation in the brain?
Have you had any kind of tick bite?
An anxiety case I just had recently who came in because of having acute panic attacks. She's an adult, but she was having trouble going to work. Like, this is new. She didn't have a longstanding history of anxiety, and. But within the last two weeks, she was having really severe panic attacks. You know, had gotten prescriptions from primary care, but looking for more of an answer as to what's going on. And, yes, there was a, she's engaged, and there was some family problems, like with in laws, when things really hit the fan by way of her symptoms, but it was still such a disproportionate response. And so there on the intake, when going about past medical and review of systems, she didn't even mention Lyme disease. But when I got to review a systems where we're going over other parts of the body, she's got joint pain, she's got fatigue.
When I ask her about it, she mentions, oh, yeah, I did have Lyme, like, nine years ago. But what happens is people get so used to it, they get so used to those problems that just becomes the day to day filter. And they excuse it away as like, oh, I was just stressed, you know, yeah, I got treated for that. Or maybe they had a tick bite and they never got any treatment right, or they didn't get enough treatment. Maybe they only got seven to 14 days of the antibiotics, what have you. But they get so used to the anxiety, the headaches, the fatigue.
Mood concerns can often be a big one. A lot of pediatrics, you'll be psychiatric symptoms more so than musculoskeletal. And unfortunately, and, you know, sadly, people, if maybe they go to a couple specialists along the way, but it just becomes a kind of state of their existence without someone exploring, is this an infectious disease? And by the way, is it an infectious disease that's superb at outflanking the immune system and could have come in from a vector that's got more than just Lyme disease? That's the whole Msaids discussion, right? That's where you start thinking about bartonella, Babesia, ehrlichia, and those opportunistic problems that the person may have had. The viruses, the yeast, the heavy metals, the things that were in the body, adding to the body burden. And then here came the infection and just blew it all out of the water.
I tell the patients it's, you know, Lyme's gonna push against their constitutional weakness. So the presentations are very different based on each person's constitutional weakness.
[00:20:21] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, and it's really sad because. And it makes you wonder, and I don't think we'll ever know, but these people that, like you said, they just deal with this, right? They get used to it. It's like it's part of their everyday life. Why is that? Is it the world moves too fast. We're always so busy, we just have to go on. Is it because these people are going to doctors and being pushed pills and they don't want them? Or is it because they're going to doctors and not getting answers like we as Lyme patients get all the time? You know, we get gaslit.
Why?
[00:20:56] Speaker D: Because that's not getting.
And then also getting the wrong answers.
Some of the clinicians are well intentioned, but they're only looking at the CDC guidelines, which are through the IDSA. They're not thinking. I mean, I've got literally right here by my knee, in the drawer, right next to my desk, is a 2008 issue of the Journal of Neuroinflammation, and it's got photos showing the spirochetes emerging from the cyst, persister forms. Right. I mean, you know, again, like, this is not like, it's not like this is like a naturopathic, you know, textbook of natural medicine. You know, this is. This is peer reviewed Journal of Neuroinflammation, but they're just not paying attention. Right? So they're just going with that really worn out definition that clinicians were given decades ago. And.
And the medical system, I mean, we're a network with insurance companies, but we tell the patients, you know, like, you're gonna have to come back, like, next week. You know, like, if we were, you know, the insurance model doesn't work in this world. So instead of seeing somebody once a month, we might have to see you like three times a month. Right. Because there's, there's so much to these cases to understand. And most clinicians, whether they're not interested, not educated, they're not educating themselves. But I feel like if your job, if you took the hippocratic oath, if your job is taking care of people and they're paying you for, you know, for getting, you know, for being the best practitioner possible, I mean, get your head out of the sand and, you know, get me off the soapbox. We better ask another question.
[00:22:37] Speaker C: I'm like, yeah, do we really want to continue this? Because you don't want to get me started on that.
[00:22:44] Speaker B: But you mentioned neuroinflammation. I mean, so obviously, and we talked about depression, anxiety, ADHD and all that. So do these ticks then progenitors, the different names that you're using, can you kind of explain that a little bit more so people understand what, what one is versus the other? And how can that impact you feeling anxious and depressed and having neuroinflammation?
[00:23:15] Speaker D: Sure.
And we're focusing a little more on the Lyme disease part of it. But I know some of this translates over to the other co infections, too, because ticks carry more than just Lyme.
[00:23:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, Borrelia and asian longhorns and. Yeah, all of the guys said.
[00:23:39] Speaker D: Well.
[00:23:39] Speaker C: Yeah, and, you know, we just, instead of calling it, you know, Lyme disease, because. Because it's not, you got the co infections, the mold, the parasites, the candy, like, everything that goes with it, like, we just need to call it this. I don't know, we need to come up with this crazy name, the lime soup. Yeah, I could go with that. The lime soup.
[00:23:57] Speaker D: Right.
That's what I like Doctor Horowitz's term, the MSIDS, the multiple systemic infectious disease syndrome.
[00:24:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:07] Speaker D: That's a kind of politically correct catch.
[00:24:09] Speaker C: All bucket for who wants to be politically correct. Are you kidding me? Where did he come from?
[00:24:16] Speaker D: Politically correct?
[00:24:18] Speaker B: We're not here in Idaho. Go back to Connecticut. No, just kidding.
Yes. I mean, because, yeah, the people call like tick borne illness, but it's not really tick borne because it can be mosquitoes, it can be flies, it can be spiders, it can be all these different things, you know, so you can't say tick borne illness, even though ticks obviously is a big factor. So, yeah, I think MSAt is a much better. Or lime soup or I'm going lime soup.
[00:24:47] Speaker C: Yeah, I know, it's easier to say, yeah, I know.
[00:24:50] Speaker B: When I was chatting with Doctor Klinghardt, you know, he said, yeah, just lime soup.
[00:24:59] Speaker D: But the term Lyme neuroborreliosis. Yeah, that's a $10 word for Lyme in your nervous system, right? Yeah, but just that, that term exists, and there's a lot of hits on it, on the pubmed, in the peer review literature. Like, just that, just that shows that this infection has such a level magnitude for hitting the nervous system, right. And so a lot of it can come down to the infection crossing the blood brain barrier, the inflammation cross in the blood brain barrier, and just. That's the whole lime soup discussion, right? Gets back to looking at inflammation in the body. And so that's where you start tracking the gut and these other areas.
I mean, Lyme and Bartonella are the two that come into mind the most.
When I'm thinking of neurologic cases and seeing neurologic, the anxiety, you know, some of the psychosis.
But there was an article maybe like two years ago about Babesia and having a high neurological. That was a. There was. They looked at multiple studies on that. It wasn't like just one study, you know, that was across, I think, maybe a dozen or so, but a high incidence of neurological case in limbabesia as well. Sorry, I lost the question.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: That's okay, that's okay. I push you off track very easily because I do that.
[00:26:33] Speaker C: And he doesn't have Lyme.
[00:26:34] Speaker B: No, exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, I was talking about. Yeah. Wanted listeners just to. Because you were mentioning. Yeah. Like progenitors. Yeah. What. What kind of a term is that? And where and in relationship to neuroinflammation? What?
[00:26:49] Speaker D: Oh, you mean like something like the persisters.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:26:53] Speaker D: So this. They have different names. So cyst form, persister form. There's a cell Wallace form, the bacteria will have different forms. And so that. So like that journal of Neuroinflammation article that I show the patients and what I walk through them is so I can't think of one person that I've ever showed that to, that's seen that information or heard it from any other clinician.
Maybe they'll, you know, maybe some of the folks that have come, they probably haven't seen it, but some of them will know about cyst forms and stuff. But my point is just that persister form, when antibiotics, when antimicrobial herbs, when things that kill the bacteria start hitting the bloodstream. And it was shown in studies by University of New Haven that those compounds will increase the incidence of the round body. Persister cyst forms, they'll actually increase them. You might kill spirochetes, which are like the wiggling snakes in the bacterial world of Lyme disease, but it'll actually increase the ones that are hiding out. And so what is a cyst form? They're like a hard little doughnut, right? It's the hibernation form. It's that cocoon form. And those have been shown to last for at least nine months.
So then, now you know, so then if an acute case happens, you know, you're trying to treat before it gets into the life cycle where the persisters are showing up.
[00:28:22] Speaker E: Right.
[00:28:22] Speaker D: You're trying to eradicate all the spirochetes before they. Because once they start changing their life cycle now, it's, it's a much harder way to treat. And that's the real difference, in my opinion, between an acute case, like a new bite, versus a older bite, where the person's had symptoms and been sick for a long time.
[00:28:46] Speaker C: But. But here lies the problem, is that most cases turn into what we don't want it to turn into because nobody can get diagnosed.
[00:28:54] Speaker D: Oh, it's hard.
[00:28:55] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, unless there's no awareness about anything. You know, I got a bullseye rash. Had I known what it meant, like, you know, things could have been a lot different, but I did.
[00:29:08] Speaker D: Oh, you actually got one?
[00:29:09] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a little like, I got a bullseye rash on my ankle. I even went to my doctor, traditional doctor, because it hurts. And boy, he sure asked me all the right questions. Do you feel like you have the flu? Are you okay? Do you have a headache? I'm like, no, I just have a bite on my ankle. Like, what is this all about? He knew, like, hindsight looking back, he knew exactly what it was, but chose not to offer any of that information to me as the patient.
[00:29:35] Speaker D: Oh, terrible.
[00:29:36] Speaker C: So therefore, I went down a rabbit hole for seven years and ended up bedridden with a caregiver, and I didn't know my name.
All the while, all these doctors are telling me it's all in my head. I mean, it's just, you know, so these cases turn chronic before we even know what it is. So we're behind the eight ball all the time.
[00:29:54] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. And then it's. So I just had a follow up with someone where, you know, I sent them out for testing, you know, again, he was the one that didn't come here for that reason. He was most mostly gastrointestinal issues and I'd have to look back at his notes to see what kind of led us down the line path, but we ended up doing. There's a number of the out of pocket labs we'll use. We will start with local labs. You know, if it's covered by insurance and, you know, and we get an answer, then that makes sense to me. You start with that. But, you know, not uncommon. We have to use the out of pocket labs, too.
And so we got even IgM hits on Bartonella and a lot of different markers for the lime. Right. So now on my follow up with, with him today, and, and he noticed significant improvements on energy levels for like a week on the treatment. And then some of the symptoms started coming back more, but it's been years. And so he's just another example of someone where they got used to the symptoms and just attributed it to something else and it just didn't get addressed.
But then, realistically, I mean, that person should be thinking like, a year of treatment is not uncommon. I mean, that's reasonable because it's important to set the expectations. I think if someone's there, I mean, I can't prescribe antibiotics. I really can't speak to that. But very often the person is on protocols for a year, longer than a year.
[00:31:38] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:38] Speaker D: So if they're using herbs, using antibiotics, it doesn't matter. It's like, you know, at that point, the infection has done so much in the body and there's so much reclaiming to health that you have to do.
[00:31:49] Speaker C: Right.
[00:31:49] Speaker D: And then you're going in those other directions, too. The co infections, you know, or food allergy sensitivities, these other things.
[00:31:56] Speaker B: And so what do you do then? Because we're talking about the persisters and kind of soon after you want to get it kind of immediately, kind of early part of the life cycle before these persistors, these little cocoons and things develop. So what kind of strategy do you use when, you know, because obviously these people that have been suffering, they are well beyond that timeframe.
[00:32:23] Speaker D: Oh, yeah.
[00:32:24] Speaker B: Yeah. So what do you do? I mean, there's something you can kind of lure these little cocoons to open up and then kill them or what do you do?
[00:32:35] Speaker D: Well, so it's definitely a process. And so, like I said, you have to set the expectations so the person's not thinking like, oh, yeah, one month and then we're cured, you know, I mean, if you're hearing that, I would be weary. I just don't think that things like that would be a reasonable timeline in those scenarios.
And so here you'll get different ideas from different providers.
[00:32:56] Speaker A: Right.
[00:32:56] Speaker D: I mean, I think most of your listeners are probably familiar with the Herxheimer response, which, thankfully, is even being written about in the peer review literature over the last several years.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Right.
[00:33:05] Speaker D: I mean, this is something that used to be more of a fringe idea, one fringe clinician to another, but, you know. But, you know, so things are moving in the right direction that way. But, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, we try to get people better without doing a Herxheimer response. There's the idea, you know, that herxing is good.
[00:33:29] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:33:29] Speaker D: And I can understand that. But if someone's hurting so bad, then don't we go back to detox pathways? Shouldn't we be going back to. And maybe we're not ready to hit the body that hard, that heavy, that fast.
How can we move? Maybe slower, but in a more comfortable way so that a mom can still be a mom and a kids can still go to school.
[00:33:55] Speaker C: I like that you're saying this because. Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you, but I love that you're saying this because we hear this a lot. Like, how much is too much to have a hurt reaction?
And I was talking to someone the other day. I'm, like, looking back on my journey years ago, I'm pretty sure I was in a really strong herx for, like, a year, literally. But I didn't know what it was, didn't know what was going on. And, yes, a hriks can kind of be our little sign that, okay, something's working. Right? Like, we're doing something in there.
And so I don't necessarily think that they're bad, but I also don't think that you have to go through life being miserable over them. Like, if it's out of control, you can't, you know, do your life. You can't be the mom. You can't do what you need to do. Back something off. Yeah, back off killing. Increase your detox. You know, do something different than what you're doing, because it doesn't need to be that miserable.
[00:34:48] Speaker D: Exactly. Exactly. A lot of my patients still have to go to work.
[00:34:51] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:52] Speaker D: Right. I mean, we have to. So I use the analogy all the time of it's like washing your hands at the sink.
[00:34:58] Speaker E: Right.
[00:34:58] Speaker D: You got to keep the water running.
Right. Our body has to be able to drain out the inflammatory cytokines and toxins that, you know, are that these bacteria, what makes our bodies favorable to them, is unfavorable to us.
[00:35:15] Speaker A: Right.
[00:35:15] Speaker D: And so as we kill them, they spill their cytotoxins, you know, they're spilling that, they're spilling the trash. Then our lymphatics have to deal with and try to excrete. And that's where people will get over. They'll feel worse, right. Their systems will get overwhelmed. So that part of the equation is different for everyone. And so we'll try to look for things to reduce the inflammation. And if we've started on the antimicrobials, maybe we decrease them to some extent. But I do like to try to keep antimicrobials in the game and then augment detox in lots of different ways. Right. I mean, I used to be in EMT, and I was mentioning the environmental science stuff, right? So ill try to detox in a biochemical way, using different nutrients and things like the saunas, but then also with some of the energetics, some of the homeopathics. Right. So you try to use different types of tools to restore the body in different types of ways.
And so instead of it just being a straight forward race, it might be this kind of like three legged event where there's this sidestepping, you know, one step forward, and. But you got to kind of sidestep because you have to do some detox. And some of the patients that have been with me for a number of years, and it's a slow process. Not, I wouldn't say most, I'd say, like less than 10%, are the ones that are really chemical sensitive. And they're gonna. But they're gonna. You increase that cryptolepsis and some of these antimicrobials by one drop, they're gonna feel it.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Right.
[00:36:53] Speaker D: So sometimes they. But usually those folks understand that it's a longer process and they would rather feel well and continue to move forward, even if it's at a slower pace.
[00:37:07] Speaker C: Yeah. So I have two questions on this. Let's see if our brains can remember all this. Right.
So my first question is, you know, so a lot of people with Lyme, we discover that we have this MTHFR mutation.
[00:37:20] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:37:20] Speaker C: So what have you seen with the differences in detoxing and their abilities to detox? Do you tend to people that, you know, are struggling more through that? Do you think that those are the ones that have the MTHFR, or does it all just kind of vary?
[00:37:40] Speaker D: I mean, it definitely varies. We'll do the MTHFR testing on a good number of people.
I think there's a lot more to the story than just the MTHFR. Some of the HLA testing that was available at quest is no longer available.
In trying to understand some of the background for the body's ability to clear some of the toxins, certainly, I think the more, if you get the homozygous mutations, the more mutations that are present on the MTHFR, the more of an impact this can have. I mean, because we're mthFr, we're talking about an enzyme that's involved in the methylation pathways. What is methylation pathways? Methylation pathways. That's one of your eight phase two liver pathways. There's no quiz at the end. Don't worry.
[00:38:32] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:38:36] Speaker D: So there's eight phase two liver pathways. Methylation is only one. Right.
And so this is where you have to kind of think back to how good is our testing? You know, and it's great that we can identify MTHFR, and sometimes those folks are ones that are more sensitive. But I wouldn't say by any stretch, because I do a lot of MTHFR tests, I wouldn't say by any stretch that that's. That there's a common thread, like, everybody with MTHFR is, like, always sensitive or anything like that. But I would also think about those other phase two liver pathways, glucuronidation, sulfation, and what can we do to augment those other pathways as well?
[00:39:19] Speaker C: Yeah. So this wasn't my other question, but I want to ask you this. So there still tends to be a lot of people out there in the Lyme world that don't know what MTHFR is. Do you feel there's a reason they need to know if they have that mutation?
[00:39:36] Speaker D: Oh, yeah, I would. And a good number of the insurance companies will cover it.
[00:39:42] Speaker C: Oh, they will. Okay, that's good.
[00:39:44] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. And then there's some that won't. You know, they have these clinical policy built in saying it's all experimental, and the whole controversy about if homocysteine is not elevated, it's, you know, then it's irrelevant. But, um. But in a.
I mean, I've had patients with anxiety say it's like a weight lifted off their shoulders, just getting them on a special form of the folate.
Right? I wouldn't say that getting them on a special form of the folate is 100%. I've never seen it be 100% of the answer, but I've seen it be like 25% of an answer. And if you can just. And talk about being like a naturopathic physician at the foundation, right. Trying to restore balance and proper function in the least invasive way possible.
I mean, this, you know, here you're addressing an inborn difficulty, because what is MTHfr? It's an enzyme, the methyltetrahydrofolate reductase. It's an enzyme that tries to add what's called a methyl group to the folate. You get your folate from your leafy spinach or whatever, granulate, and here's your folic acid. And this enzyme's job is to try to put a methyl group on the top of it. This is where I usually grab a pen and I have, like, the little cap. Here's your methyl group, and we try to put the methyl group on, and so then the enzyme lets it go. And so, but we know that a single genetic mutation, then it might only be 60% of the time. It might only be effective with that, in doing that job. But you can get a person on a premethylated form of that folate. So, you know, that's, that's a great way to try to help move somebody forward, because you're taking a part of the body that really wasn't working optimally anyway and sets them up for cardio risk factors and detox risk factors. And. And some, you know, and this is involved in neurotransmitters. That's why even nothing to do with Lyme disease. This is where it comes in with, you know, with some of the mood and psychiatric concerns, because it's involved in neurotransmitter production. So I often will test for it. And if insurance doesn't cover it, you could. There's buckle swab tests you can do. So we do a lot of peds, as I met pediatric, as I mentioned. But buckle swab test, it's sticking a q tip inside your mouth and roll it around and get the saliva and send it off to the lab. You know, if that can give us any kind of edge, well worth it, that organic acid testing. Come on, be in a cup.
[00:42:07] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:07] Speaker D: Although some of the patients won't even do that.
[00:42:10] Speaker C: That's crazy. Okay, so here's my question. Are you guys ready?
All that build up, I couldn't hold myself. So a few minutes ago, we were kind of on the topic. You kind of touched on a little bit, Doctor Carney. And it's funny, because of all these episodes we've done, I don't think I've ever asked this question.
So I almost wish I could give you guys each a piece of paper and you write down your own answer so you can't hear what you're going to say, and I'm sure the first thing you're gonna say is, I can't give an answer to one that. So that's not an option. There's not an a, b, C or D choice. Right. So here's my question.
[00:42:45] Speaker B: All of the above.
[00:42:45] Speaker C: Can't do that one. No, no. Flat out answer. So, not sure who wants to go first, but here it is. Cause I hear this a lot, and I understand there's no answer for it, but if you had to give your most estimated guess based on your patient history, maybe would be a good thing to base it on. So if a patient comes to you and they've been sick for five years, undiagnosed, let's just go five years, and you're going to set up a protocol for them, what would you say the most reasonable expectations for a timeframe for them to be? Well, I know. Loaded question, right? You can't give an answer. But a lot of people sometimes, you know, want to know, okay, is this a six month thing? Is this a five year thing? Is there a. You know, the longer they're sick, the longer it takes? Is it. Does the MTHFR come into play about how well you can get better? Like, I know there's a whole lot of different variables, and so maybe we don't even give an answer on that. Maybe we discuss it, because I think it's kind of important to a lot of people.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: Well, I mean, usually what you say is that, you know, a month per year. Yeah. Sick. That.
[00:43:56] Speaker C: That's kind of a month per year.
[00:43:57] Speaker D: Okay.
[00:43:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's kind of a general, general thing to consider.
But, you know, having said that, obviously, you know, and I have patients coming in with the worst possible complex syndrome, pain, neurological. And you do just kind of a simple treatment, and lo and behold, everything's better, you know, so. And then you have somebody that just seems like a very easy fix, and they just become this. This kind of nightmare patient, you know? So I. Yeah, like, like I said, you don't. You don't know, but kind of a general tends to be like a month per year. A month per year.
[00:44:42] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:44:42] Speaker B: But a lot of people don't know, obviously, when they truly start to get sick, and then. So.
[00:44:49] Speaker C: Right, and that phase it. Yeah.
[00:44:50] Speaker B: And then for detoxification, then you talk about a month per year lived, you know, so if you're 60, then it's 60 months to really kind of go after it.
To go after, like, for detoxification, for clearing out chemicals, having metals and things okay. Yeah.
[00:45:09] Speaker C: Okay. So that's, that's good to know. So, doctor Carney, agreement, difference?
[00:45:18] Speaker D: I'd say pretty much agreement. I mean there's so much individuation, right. I mean the, the more factors a person's up against, it's always harder, you know. I mean, I think a strict case without the co infections responds faster. When we have trouble, like if we're targeting Lyme and we're having trouble, there's usually co infections in there regardless of what, you know, what the test might have showed or, you know.
And so, and I gave an estimate earlier of like, you know, if someone's been sick for years, at least a year of treatment I think is certainly reasonable. But that doesn't mean like a year to feel well. I mean I can think of a case recently, a person's feeling better in a week and a half. That doesn't mean like, you know, it's 100%, but you can still have market, market improvement within, you know, within a couple weeks depending on what the person's up against. But you know, that old analogy with the layers of the onion, that's true as ever. You know, it is this process and now you really wish you could accelerate it for some of the people, but sometimes, you know, sometimes you know, the rest of life. Right. And you know what they're, you know what, you know what they're eating and you know, who they're with, you know, and there's these other factors, you know, that you can't control.
[00:46:45] Speaker C: So many factors. I knew it was going to be a loaded question.
[00:46:48] Speaker B: Well, I mean, and you said sick. Yeah, so we, if we. Lime is almost, if you deal with kind of low lime and mold and those type of things, then you have to step into lime soup, right? Yeah, yeah. So then you can't really say that, you know, all of a sudden. Yeah, I have now had pain and pain all over, can't think, can't find my car, don't know where I live, those type of things that can happen very suddenly.
[00:47:15] Speaker C: Are you talking about me?
[00:47:20] Speaker B: So if you are, I mean, obviously if you're in that state, you may have been sick for 2025 years and it's just been there laying there, you know, festering, and then you have something that tips you over and now you're exhibiting symptoms, you know, so in reality, then you may have been sick then for 25 years, you know, without knowing.
[00:47:45] Speaker C: Truly, like just kind of eating away at you on the inside and you don't really know it.
[00:47:50] Speaker B: Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so you don't know when you really got sick, you know?
[00:47:55] Speaker C: Right.
[00:47:55] Speaker D: So, yeah, yeah. And just to even bring it back to what we were saying in the beginning, as far as people being sick and not knowing it and that whole 14% of the world's population being exposed to Lyme, I mean, this bacteria has been around for millennia, right? I mean, it's really, you know, it's this arms race between evolution in our bodies, right. And plants are doing the same thing against microbes.
[00:48:23] Speaker A: Right.
[00:48:23] Speaker D: It's this constant Steve Buhner's work.
[00:48:25] Speaker A: Right.
[00:48:26] Speaker D: Brilliant. You know, that whole evolutionary process. But, you know, so at what point is it, you know, and we're seeing a lot of people where the tipping points are, you know, and the magnitude of the symptoms are happening, but, you know, not everyone is overtly sick.
[00:48:44] Speaker A: Right.
[00:48:45] Speaker D: Maybe some stressor happens. The case I mentioned with the. With the acute panic attacks.
[00:48:50] Speaker A: Right?
[00:48:50] Speaker D: So she has acute, acute stress stress work and then the in laws, and that suppresses her immune system, and that's just enough to put her under. But she had had some level of illness going on for years and years, and. But she didn't identify herself as not being well.
I think that that's such an important part of this, of these discussions is trying to help people kind of think outside of their own box.
[00:49:19] Speaker A: Right.
[00:49:19] Speaker D: And in terms of, you know.
[00:49:25] Speaker C: Trying.
[00:49:25] Speaker D: To get a fresh look on interpreting their spot on that journey, that road of wellness.
[00:49:33] Speaker C: Right. Because a lot of times, you know, a lot of our guests on the show, they're like, you know, yeah, I started getting sick a couple years ago, and then I got diagnosed. But, you know, now that I think about it, when I was born, I had this and I had this, and, you know, now we're going back 30, 40, 50 years that they obviously had Lyme, but they. They didn't know it. It wasn't enough of issues, you know, to continue to go down the rabbit hole to try to figure out, you know, why this is happening or that just gets better and then this happens and then.
[00:50:03] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. There was an interesting study by John Hopkins in 2022, and they looked at people that had everything with migraines, the bullseye rashes, and were on antibiotics promptly. And 65% was like a cure rate. Then there was 25% that still had new symptoms, but they were back to functioning, and there was 14% who needed additional treatment.
Check out the study if you havent. It is interesting. It's. It's beginning to kind of make that paving that way to, like, like, look like you know, like, Lyme doesn't always get beat, right? That it can persist in there, but, um. So, yeah, there's that. And they have like 14% are, you know, going on with needing some kind of treatment, you know, the whole post Lyme syndrome business. But, um. What, but what about that 25% too, right? So 25%, like, they're not really being tracked because they're kind of like back to normal, but they also had new symptoms.
[00:51:13] Speaker A: Right.
[00:51:13] Speaker D: So, I mean, I'd have to look back the study and, you know, explore it more, but I think that 25% might be kind of who we're talking about now, where there was still some level of the infection present, but not enough to, for them to really feel like it's a showstopper, you know, like they need to get additional treatment and.
[00:51:32] Speaker B: Then as we're talking about the persisters, you know, so here you have, you get the antibiotic. Wow, I feel so much better. But then you have these little persisters, little cyst forms that are kind of laying there and then you stop the antibiotic treatment and now all of a sudden they start to become active and they unfold and do their thing. So you can have them with the study showing that, wow, this high number get better, but we don't know what happened a year later or two years later. It's kind of like, you know, with, with cancer, you know, you have, they do the chemo, they do surgery, radiation, and, and then, you know, no evidence of disease. But then five years later, you know, some other cancer pops up or, you know, or even a year later, you know, because, you know, you, you don't account them for the cancer stem cells, you know, kind of like you don't account for these little cyst forms, you know, that are just kind of laying there and ready to kind of jump out. So it's always kind of interesting, them with these studies. What time frame are they looking at? How long is the study and.
[00:52:44] Speaker C: Yeah, so, yeah, I just don't like studies. Don't like them. I think they're all wrong. How's that? I said what I said, I think that's right.
[00:52:53] Speaker B: So one of the things that I really wanted to cover before we finished and we kind of alluded to, to this a little bit before. You know, a lot of Lyme patients, they deal with emotional, you know, that it's tough emotionally to go through it, anxiety, depression, a lot of these other aspects. And you mentioned children, obviously, and that's a little different scenario that are coming into you and they're dealing with behavioral issues, ADHD, maybe Lyme is present in that, if it's a sudden onset. But I really would like to discuss what can an individual do that is dealing here? You're dealing with Lyme, you're in pain, you have a hard time, focus, and you get anxiety, depression. What are some of the tools that they can use to maybe improve that while they're going through their journey?
[00:53:50] Speaker D: Right.
Try to deal with some of those types of symptoms as well.
[00:53:54] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:53:55] Speaker D: Right. So.
As well as a naturopathic physician.
[00:54:00] Speaker A: Right.
[00:54:00] Speaker D: So one of the things that we're, you know, we look towards, right, might be some of the nutraceuticals, some of the amino acids, you know, some of the things like gaba, supporting serotonin.
[00:54:12] Speaker A: Right.
[00:54:12] Speaker D: And then, you know, some of the delivery systems. Right. Maybe like a liposomal delivery system would get a better intracellular absorption. So, you know, there's. So there's things you can do from supplements and certainly botanicals, right. Some of the nerve vines, they don't make you too sleepy.
Right. So, you know, there's supplements that can help with a person navigating their day.
Acupuncture, I use with some of the patients, we do physical medicine treatments here.
Acupuncture, low level laser, which is also called the cold laser.
I mean, things like acupuncture can be great for trying to rewire part of the body. Right. If a person's stuck in some of these states, it might be twice a week for a couple weeks and drop it to once a week. But instead of just relying on, like, a supplement protocol, you know, that that gives you another set of tools. Now, pediatrics, they're not signing up for the acupuncture. My own kids won't let me do acupuncture on them.
[00:55:16] Speaker B: Well, they don't want any needles in them.
[00:55:18] Speaker D: I'm shocked.
[00:55:20] Speaker B: Every kid loves needles.
[00:55:24] Speaker D: My kids are probably better at needling.
[00:55:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:55:31] Speaker D: So diet, right. And that's probably part of this discussion already. If the person is identified as tick borne illness and Lyme disease.
[00:55:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:55:41] Speaker D: But, you know, looking to avoid the sugar rushes, make sure we're getting well rounded phytonutrients into the picture, make sure we're getting proteins and not skipping meals. I mean, these things end up affecting a person's mood, and so that can.
Irritability, anxiety. It's surprising how many times I give out the diet diary. About half the time that I'll come back filled in at all. But, hey. But it's surprising how often that those are still parts of the puzzle, and the person's just having, like, a bowl of cheerios or something for breakfast. They're just carving up, and there's, like, no protein. There's almost no vegetables in the picture. Right.
So looking at some of those fundamentals, not just supplements or, like, a physical medicine component. And then so on our website, we've got the e book I did on Lyme, but one before that on anxiety. So this was really in the post pandemic anxiety. But I've got references in there about how meditation was shown to increase telomere length.
[00:56:51] Speaker A: Right.
[00:56:52] Speaker D: So this is taking part of practices that a person can do daily.
And when they were getting results like that, these are people that were meditating for, like, more than ten years. This isn't like, just, you know, 90 days.
[00:57:07] Speaker C: Not a one and done deal.
[00:57:08] Speaker D: Yeah, come on.
[00:57:09] Speaker C: That's how we live. We want to do it once.
[00:57:11] Speaker D: I know it. I know it.
[00:57:13] Speaker C: We didn't eat a cake today. How much weight did we lose?
[00:57:16] Speaker B: We're Americans.
[00:57:17] Speaker C: We want it now.
Yeah.
[00:57:21] Speaker D: Mentality. I know it.
[00:57:22] Speaker C: Right. But, you know, go ahead.
[00:57:25] Speaker D: Sorry. But even if just doing five or ten minutes a day.
[00:57:29] Speaker A: Right.
[00:57:29] Speaker D: And that. And then if you're looking into, like, meditation and concentration exercises, there's so many different ways to go. Right. Prayer and, you know, and trying to round out, I think, a sense of a person's own identity, because the more.
The more aspects of themselves that they identify with.
[00:57:49] Speaker A: Right.
[00:57:49] Speaker D: So this might be like, if you look at some, like, the buddhist meditations and different concentration types of exercises where, you know, the more ways you can kind of have perspectives of yourself, then these become resources you can kind of lean on.
[00:58:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:58:08] Speaker D: And whether it's a higher power or God, what have you.
[00:58:10] Speaker B: Right.
[00:58:11] Speaker D: And try to have these aspects in your life. So, like, it's not just you going through it.
So, you know, so there's. I think there's a lot of different ways. And I wouldn't get into all each of those with everybody, but I think it's important to at least bring some of that to the table.
[00:58:32] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:32] Speaker D: You know, and usually those people are already, like, they're meeting with a therapist, and, you know, it's great to have, like, cognitive behavioral therapies and things that we are actually doing in practice. Right. To change our behaviors. But I'm assuming on that question that there's more than just that that we're looking to do.
[00:58:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And I love that you brought up kind of the sugar fluctuations, because I always say that your mood goes with your glucose pretty much, or your blood sugar. So it is so important to make sure that you keep your blood sugar level. And if you eat the bowl of Cheerios or you eat, you know, drink a soda pop, you know that it's going to mess with your mood, it's going to put you making irritable, you know, depression, anxiety, all of these things are. You're going to be more prone to it. So just as a first step, like you're mentioning, you know, kind of look at your diet, make sure that you're eating enough protein, eating. Eating regular enough so that you don't have these sugar dips. And. And then, yeah, meditation and, yeah, self exploration is so huge. And then on top of that, you can bring in some of the natural tools, like you mentioned GabA or the nervines passion flower, lobelia or glycine or taurine, or all of the St. John's wort or five hdp. The list goes on and on. Kava, there's so many cool tools out there that's available.
You don't need to jump onto medications immediately.
[01:00:13] Speaker C: Yes, and I like that because I didn't know that. So immediately you're on Ativan or Klonopin or whatever, but when you experience your first anxiety attack, like I did, I call 911, I got to go to the hospital. I'm having a heart attack, and that's not the case. But a traditional doctor is probably not going to tell you that.
But anyway, so back to talking about the diet. I love to talk about the diet and how you say, Doctor Carney, that most people don't fill out that form. Right?
So I can speak on behalf of patients, because I'm sure, I think, like most of them, I had a pretty good diet. I was a pretty healthy person before I got sick.
I wasn't a big, in my younger days, I was a big sugar junkie, right? You go to my work and you look at my top drawer, and I have candy of any kind you can imagine.
But as I got older, you know, I didn't do that and I had a pretty healthy diet. But when you're talking about, like, gluten or in my case, seafood was a big deal because I had mercury poisoning. So when we're already going through what we're going through, right, we're. We're going through this lime soup thing. We might be trying to find a doctor that we can resonate with to get well, trying all these different protocols that may or may not be working. There's so much going on in our life. And then you add on anxiety and depression, and then you add on trying to be a parent or. You know what I mean? There's like so many variables in it.
And if you want them to change their diet, too, like, it's a lot. I know it doesn't sound like it, but it really is. When you're already in the mix of everything that you're in now, if you're healthy and fine and you tell somebody to change your diet, it's a whole different ballgame. Like, that's their number one and only focus. But when you're a Lyme patient going through this, that was really, really hard. My initial holistic treatment I did the first three years, some type of counter action with coffee affected the herbs and stuff I was taking. And the doctor said, well, you can't have coffee. And I thought, okay, well, that's the end of the world almost, you know, you want me to get out of bed and go function. And then I stopped and I thought, Tanya, you thought you were going to die. Not very long ago, you found a doctor that's going to help you just quit drinking coffee. Like, it kind of, you know, it's a mind over matter thing. For sure. For sure. And I get it. But so many people don't understand how important it is to clean up that diet when you're trying to get well, I can tell you you're either not going to get well or it's going to be a long, drawn out journey. So quit the sugar, quit the gluten, quit the dairy. If that's, you know, you're having issues with that, just do it. It's not forever, you know, most of the time, once you beat the lime, you don't want to go back to a lot of that stuff anyways because you feel so much better without it. But you can. That can be an option for you. It's not forever, but that's like you said, Doctor Carney, a huge piece to the puzzle. And it's something I can't get through just people's heads when I talk to him. It's mind blowing.
[01:03:22] Speaker D: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that perspective, Tanya. You know, I agree with you.
It's, you know, you got to try to meet people where they're at. I mean, in my mindset, right, I can have the best treatment protocols, but if it's not practical for the person, it's going nowhere. It's going nowhere. So I've done a lot of entire visits where we're doing dietary counseling or I'm thinking of a mother who's got chronic Lyme, and she's got two kids not diagnosed with Lyme, but the behaviors are there. Right. So that's a perfect example of someone whose bucket runneth over. And so for, you know, we would structure a menu for herself and then one for her, the meal prep with the family and these, you know, and then on the follow up, we checked on the progress on each one. Right. Because sometimes that's what it takes, right. Is being able to help someone for where they're at, to help them on their day to day.
[01:04:28] Speaker C: I like that. That truly could be huge for somebody. You know, we go in, and if we have a problem with anxiety, you're going to talk to us about that and, you know, give us one of these amazing supplements you guys both mentioned. Fantastic. We're struggling with our diet. I love it. Help us with it. Be our dietitian for. For just an appointment. Right. Like, sometimes the struggle is so real, we just can't grasp it. If we're used to something for so long, how do we just change it? I don't know how to cook without this, or I don't know how to. You know, it sounds simple, but, you know, it's just like, I'm not a plumber, so don't call me to fix your toilet, but I'm sure it's something easy. Right. You know, so, yeah, I love that. I think that should definitely be part of. Don't just tell us to fix your diet. Don't just tell us to show us how. Show us how. I like it.
[01:05:18] Speaker D: Yeah. Yeah. And that's the training of the naturopathic physicians. Right. Trying to look at the whole person and that whole functional medicine movement. And I think, you know, largely pushed by, you know, by medical doctors who recognize the value in the type of stuff that we're doing and trying to see that, you know, that there's. There's merit to these types of approaches, that it's, you know, it's not just the one pill approach anymore. And patients are demanding it.
[01:05:48] Speaker B: Right.
[01:05:48] Speaker D: That that's why there's a market for it. Patients are demanding it.
[01:05:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Because the one pill approach hasn't worked and people are tried it, and now they recognize that you got to work on the terrain that the bug lives in in addition to the bug, you know, so. Well, Doctor Carney, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for spending time with us and chatting about this complex disorder, this complex challenge that.
[01:06:17] Speaker C: The lime soup.
[01:06:18] Speaker B: The lime soup that all of America is battling with. So thank you so much, Doctor Carney.
[01:06:25] Speaker C: Yes, it was truly great. Just a great conversation. We kind of went all over the board with it and I love it. Yeah, kind of conversations I like. So we appreciate your time and sharing with us. Thank you so much.
[01:06:36] Speaker D: Yes, thank you for having me. You guys are doing a terrific job on the show and keeping awareness going.
[01:06:41] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you.
[01:06:43] Speaker D: Okay, bye bye bye.
[01:06:54] Speaker A: The information this podcast this podcast is for educational purposes only and it's not designed to diagnose or treat any disease. I hope this podcast impacted you as it did me. Please subscribe so that you can be notified when new episodes are released. There's some excellent shows coming up that you do not want to miss. If you're enjoying these podcasts, please take a moment to write a review and please don't keep this information to yourself. Share them with your family and friends. You never know what piece of information that will transform their lives. For past episodes and powerful information on how to conquer Lyme, go to integrativelimesolutions.com and an additional powerful resource, limestream.com. For lime support and group discussions, join Tanya on Facebook at Lime Conquerors mentoring Lime warriors. If you'd like to know more about the cutting edge integrative of Lyme Therapies MyCenter offers, please visit thecarlfeldcenter.com. Thank you for spending this time with us and I hope to see you at our next episode of Integrative Lyme Solutions with Doctor Karlfeld.
