[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Integrative lyme Solutions with Dr. Karl Feldt.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: I am so excited about the show.
[00:00:07] Speaker A: That we have ahead of us. We have some phenomenal information that could save lives.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: You're gonna need to tune in to what's going on today.
[00:00:16] Speaker A: The information is jam packed, so don't step away.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: Well, I have the absolute pleasure of having Olivia Abrams with me today.
Olivia, thank you so much for speaking, spending some time with me. I really appreciate it.
[00:00:35] Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: Well, so like everyone, you've had a lime journey, and then many people, when they've gone through that journey, they want to make sure that they help as many people as possible because nobody likes that journey.
[00:00:54] Speaker C: It's very true. Definitely.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: So tell me a little bit about your journey. What did that look like? Because each one is, I know, is unique and there are some commonalities, but I feel it's so important for our listeners to get to hear what other people have experienced, what they can relate to, and get some kind of little tidbits here and there that can help them while they are battling with their disease.
[00:01:26] Speaker C: Definitely, yeah. I grew up in New York City, but spent a lot of my childhood in upstate New York, which we know is one of the worst areas probably in the world for ticks.
And when I was about seven years old, so this is back in the early 2000s, I presented with really bad arthritis in my knee.
I could hardly get up from my bed to go to the bathroom. I ended up missing a few weeks of school, and my parents didn't really know what was wrong with me. I started presenting with these symptoms in the fall. So we had been, you know, not upstate as much recently.
And they had. They were convinced that I had, you know, just not dislocated it, but tweaked it in some way in gymnastics or ballet class. And so they kept taking me to orthopedics and to my general practitioner, who did a lot of blood tests and nothing was coming up.
So, you know, we. We went through that for a few weeks, and then finally, when we were running out of answers, my dad said, you know, we have been spending a lot of time in upstate New York. Have we tested her for Lyme disease? And I remember him calling my doctor and asking that. And I'm very fortunate that he had an understanding of what Lyme could look like.
He had had a number of friends many years prior who had had Lyme disease before, and he had, you know, neglected to ever mention to my doctor that we had been spending a lot of time in a rural area, so. So, you know, we. She didn't know that I had been exposed to ticks, but now we know that we actually have ticks in New York City.
And I think a few days after that conversation, I ended up going to the doctor, and by then, I got a giant rash all over my face. And at that point, my doctor said, you don't even need to be tested for Lyme disease. We're just going to put you right on antibiotics. And I can't remember how long I was on that protocol for probably at least a few weeks, in addition to, you know, six months of physical therapy and strengthening for my knee.
And after that, they kind of told me that I was going to be fine, and I got a lot better.
Everyone in my family ended up getting Lyme disease at some point or another. My dad also suffered from another chronic illness, so I grew up having a parent who was chronically ill.
Um, and now that I'm an adult and I have a much stronger understanding of Lyme disease, I question, did I ever fully get rid of it?
You know, I've. I've had mysterious symptoms that I take for, you know, being somewhat normal, such as gut issues or, you know, having periods of severe anxiety or always being cold or always being hot. And, you know, for all I know, those may be lingering Lyme symptoms that I need to spend some time really looking into. So that's. That's most of my Lyme journey. But I've just been inspired by not just my own, but everyone around me who went through this. And especially since I've gotten more involved in the Lyme community as an adult, the amount of people and stories that I've heard is flab. It makes me flabbergasted. So, as you said earlier, I've. I've taken a really strong approach in trying to help others with this as well.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. Love that. So I'm curious. So you just did a few weeks and of antibiotics and then physical therapy, and that was it. And that, I mean, like you mentioned, you still were dealing with some things that, you know, make you think that you still have it in some fashion.
But, you know, the major symptoms. Did that resolve after.
After those therapies?
[00:05:28] Speaker C: Yeah, it definitely resolved.
I think that the physical therapy helped a lot because at the time, my only real symptom was very intense arthritis.
So I spent a lot of time trying to make sure that my knee was strong enough to support me because I was very athletic kid.
And so, you know, that was something that I was kind of doing very intensely for probably six months, and then something that I would revisit every, you know, few months or every couple of years growing up, just ensuring that it didn't end up being a long term issue.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: And, and I'm curious, you mentioned that, you know, pretty much everyone in your family at some point dealt with Lyme. I mean, what, what were some of the symptoms that they were experiencing? And I, and I assume that you, you jump to the conclusion much faster in regards to Lyme being a driving factor.
[00:06:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I think as a, as a kid, I never saw a tick on me. So, you know, I didn't know that it was an issue.
But, you know, here we are 20 years later, and this time of year I'm pulling 10 ticks at a time off of both of my two dogs. So it's, it's almost unavoidable in my family's home.
And so, you know, we keep docycline at home at this point. We have multiple Lyme literate doctors on speed dial. This is unfortunately our reality in, in the area that we've chosen to live in.
Yeah, but they've all, they've all presented with different symptoms. I've had people with severe fever, like neck pain, exhaustion. I mean, even if we find a weird looking itchy spot on our leg, we, you know, are investigating it. So it's, it's very top of mind for us, and that's why we put so much time and effort toward prevention as well.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: And so, I mean, when did you decide that you wanted to take more of an active role in helping other people with this, with this disease and starting tickmit.
[00:07:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that I was actually very uneducated about the topic, as I find a lot of people who are not in this community are.
When my family and I first came up with the idea for our company tickmit, which I'll talk a little bit more about later, we were under the assumption that this was a northeast problem that mainly affected pet parents.
And once we started our business and started doing research, we found out we were extremely wrong, that this is a global issue affecting literally everyone, no matter what outdoor activity they're doing, even if they're just sitting in their backyard.
And so that's when I started to take a lot more of an approach in understanding why this is happening. You know, whether it's climate change or deforestation, how this affects people differently.
Talking to many doctors and eventually being asked to join Project Lyme on their Board.
So I work very closely with them and since founding our company, have gotten involved in a lot of other organizations. So working with the center for Lyme Action on, on federal lobbying, and then taking it a step further and looking at what's being done in my state of New York and, you know, working with the Lyme Treatment foundation to ensure that people can actually afford their treatment.
So I've, I've been able to take a lot of different level lenses at what the issues are, and it really fuels what my mission is now, which is preventative care.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: And so what are some of the, as you're unraveling this coming from a place of not fully understanding yourself and then educating yourself and then seeing the knowledge that that is out there, and then also obviously, people not fully understanding what, what are some of the most common misconceptions that you run into and what are some of the things that most people fully don't understand in regards to Lyme disease?
[00:10:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I think one thing that I actually was reading today, which was a hypothesis I had had, but was actually confirmed in a study recently, is Pfizer and Johns Hopkins just came out with some research. They, I believe they surveyed over 70,000 people, and 90% of those people live in areas that are considered high risk for ticks. So probably the northeast parts of the upper Midwest, probably, you know, Northern California and what have you. And they found that almost all of these people were aware that ticks were a danger and a problem, and only 30% of them actually went through any trouble to protect themselves. Meaning they, they actually performed tick checks when they came home. They wore bug spray, they, you know, tucked their pants into their socks. And that number actually decreased even more if they had only gone into their backyard. So if they had gone into their backyard alone, they were even less likely to bug spray, tick checks, etc. And so, you know, I had had the idea that everyone knows about ticks. No one's just taking it seriously. No one's actually taking any steps to keep themselves safe. So that's a huge one. I think that's what a big misconception is, that you don't actually have to do anything to keep yourself safe. It's just better to play Russian roulette.
So that's one of them.
I would also say that a lot of people, I don't think, understand how susceptible kids are to this.
You know, they're the number one group who get bit by tics. I was a child when I got bit. I bet you a lot of people who are suffering from chronic Lyme disease as adults were probably bit as children.
And so I think there is a lot of lack of awareness among the parenting community about how important it is for them to perform tic checks, but also teach their children that this is a life skill, the same way that they, you know, learn to put on sunscreen or wash their hands.
So there are a lot of misconceptions.
I mean, when I'm on social media, a lot of people say, you can just take antibiotics and you'll get better. And I'm like, there have to be a lot of factors that line up perfectly for that to be the case. You have to either see a tick or get a bullseye rash, which does not happen all the time. And like I said, I never saw a tick.
You have to find a doctor soon enough who is willing to do any form of treatment, whether that's either give you antibiotics, acknowled that you're, you know, may have something wrong with you, or even perform a Lyme test in the first place. And if all of those things happen, you also have to make sure that you did all this fast enough so that the Lyme didn't spread, and that's when antibiotics can help you. But, you know, the odds of that happening, I don't know what they are. They're probably not great.
So there's a huge misconception that you get bit by a tick, you get antibiotics, you're fine. Slide.
[00:13:26] Speaker B: And so you've mentioned tick checks a number of times. I mean, do you mind just kind of running through quickly what. What a proper tick check should look like?
[00:13:37] Speaker C: Yes. So, and this is exactly why I created tickmit, which I can tell you a little bit about. So when you perform a tick check, you probably need someone to help you, because there are definitely areas of your body that are difficult to see. And if you don't have another person, you at least need a Mirro.
And that can look like checking not just your extremities, like your legs or your arms, but looking at areas where ticks would want to burrow so under your armpits, in your belly button. I've seen people who have gotten bit by ticks under their eyelashes, obviously putting, you know, running your hands through your hair and through your head, but finding something that can be the size of a poppy seed with your naked eye is. Is crazy to think that that's going to happen 100% of the time. And so that's why we created Tickmit, because as long as a tick hasn't physically burrowed into your skin, yet you can just rub this glove over any part of your skin or your clothes and the ticks will stick to it like Velcro. So then you don't have to rely entirely on site to find the ticks. You just have to wipe yourself down. And that also helps you prevent yourself from bringing ticks into your car or your home.
One of our biggest problems is that we have big dogs. They're, you know, black and brown. I can't see ticks on them. And they, you know, don't have the shortest hair. And so they would come into my home and sit on my couch and they would be covered in ticks. And then those ticks leave the dog and they go on to me and my family. And so having a way to prevent ticks from coming inside is, is such a blessing.
And.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Yes. So, so tell me about Techman. I mean, that, that sounds amazing. So you just have like a, emit a glove you put on and somehow that magically just the, the ticks just attached to it.
[00:15:41] Speaker C: Yep. So it's a completely chemical free glove. It is made of a patented microfiber. So we worked with a tick scientist and a product engineer over many years to create this very specific fabric. And it's designed to work.
So if you, you know, Google a picture of a tick, you're going to see that their legs are kind of curved, they're not straight. And so what ends up happening is we have the right size loops in our fabric that will pick up ticks. So the legs of the ticks get stuck in the loops. And it's designed to pick up ticks of multiple different species and sizes because obviously nymphs are much smaller than adults. So you have to make sure that you have the right loop size that's going to fit all of them.
So by just rubbing this mitt over skin or your clothes, your pet's fur, your hiking gear, anything that you brought outside that you're now we're going to bring back into your house or has the ability to transfer from an item to yourself, you can now check for ticks without relying entirely on your site.
[00:16:48] Speaker B: That's incredible. So you said, because I mean dogs, I mean, they have, you know, more hair, so you're able to actually, as you are rubbing that over their fur, you're able to kind of get deeper as well, in addition to just that kind of surface level.
[00:17:05] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, dogs obviously differ in their coats the same way that we do with our hair. So if you have a Shorter haired dog, you can kind of just rub them down. If you have like a longer hair dog, we usually suggest doing kind of a grabbing motion throughout the fur.
Like I have very long hair, so when I take the mitt, I'll kind of swipe down and close my hand around the hair versus you. You might just be able to rub, you know, the, of your head.
So, you know, just making sure that you are doing a thorough swipe over yourself will allow you to find the ticks and not have to worry about potentially finding an embedded one later.
Something that we see a lot is that people were afraid to go to a specific park or they don't want to go hiking anymore, or they don't want to garden because they have such anxiety about ticks and, and it's incredibly unfortunate that we have to deal with them.
But sacrificing activities that we love and that keep us going and that are our passions is equally horrible. And so having an easy tool that can reduce a lot of that anxiety for you really gives your freedom to enjoy the outdoors again.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: I mean, that's phenomenal. And yeah, because that's a challenge is that once you've been exposed and you've gone through this, this very difficult lime journey, you never want to go through that again ever. So then, and that's what happens and you limit yourself and how you experience life.
And so now you're limiting joy and you have beautiful places and so forth. So this can then allow you, I mean, it would still be good to do those precautions that you're talking about in regards to, I mean, your pants inside your socks and, you know, so forth. So I mean that, that, that's, that's phenomenal. So what gave you the idea? I mean, what, what kind of moved you in this direction?
[00:19:19] Speaker C: Yeah, we by happenstance have dogs that drool a lot.
And so we would have towels laying around our home that we would use to clean up their drool when we would hear them drinking.
And every once in a while we would find something strange on the towel that they had brought from inside, so leaves, burrs, ants and other insects and a couple of times, ticks. And because this was such a problem for my family, we thought maybe we can reverse engineer fabric specifically for this because, you know, allowing our dogs to come inside and knowing that we haven't done a proper tick check and wanting to snuggle with them at night is terrifying.
And so, you know, we, we thought about this many, many years ago. It was just a little business idea in the back of our head. And as I got a little bit older and was really excited about potentially having my own business one day, I started spending a lot more time understanding, you know, how big this problem is and coming up with a business plan. But, but I think that this work has allowed me to do a lot of other incredibly important work in Lyme awareness. I think obviously I'm providing a monetary item that people are paying $20 for, but I think that what we're doing is incredibly important for people's health and we're also increasing awareness of tick borne disease and then providing a solution to keep people safe. So I think that that's a really important thing.
I find that a lot of the research and effort that's going into tick borne disease recently is all for people who have already been infected, which of course we need to do something about. But as I told you earlier, everyone knows ticks are a problem, but no one does anything about it. And so if we can get at least a certain portion of the population to become better at tick checks, the amount of people who are getting s will go down.
And so that's really my mission is prevention and awareness of the issue and taking our health seriously.
[00:21:46] Speaker B: And where do you feel we're at kind of legislatively, you know, funding research?
Where do you feel we're at in those areas? Because obviously, I mean, I heard at the last ilads that I was at that, you know, they're, they're like 600,000 new people diagnosed every year. So yeah, I mean the numbers, I thought it was 200 and here, here.
[00:22:12] Speaker C: You know, no, it's a lot more.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: It's a lot more.
[00:22:15] Speaker C: And that's just Lyme disease. I don't think that counts. Alpha Gal or bevaciosis or any of the other ones either. So it's, it's probably over a million. If you just look at all tick borne disease, which is a huge portion of our country, if it's every single year, I find that there is a lot of amazing new research being done. I do think that diagnostics are getting better.
But the problem is, is that the research that we're doing isn't necessarily keeping up with how fast the cases are growing.
And so, you know, we have a lot of more, a lot more money being put into research. We're looking at a lot more things such as, you know, Lyme that may be passed from mother to baby, you know, different types of treatments for chronic illness, ways in which Lyme disease and Covid may may have similarities. I mean, there's a lot of different things being researched, but the cases are continuing to grow. And that's where we're really lacking is.
What I would love to do or see being done is a study on how infiltrating a community in some way actually lowers cases of Lyme disease. So if there's someone out there who can maybe perform research, maybe they go into a town in upstate New York or Connecticut or Pennsylvania, and they force programming in schools, they force programming in PTAs, they pass out flyers, they, you know, have education, PSAs, all of these things. How does that actually, actually lower the amount of cases we're seeing in that town over time? And I think that's. That's extremely valuable work that no one is doing.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: I mean, we saw during COVID what education could do and how people were willing then to comply to whatever steps that the government felt was needed, whether they were or not. That's a different discussion. But it was just seeing that when education was given that people are able then to take action to defend themselves and protect themselves against an infectious agent.
[00:24:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. That's what I'm looking for. And I think that one of the biggest problems is that this is not habitual. People are not taught this at a young age, that this is a serious thing, or instilling it in their family members or their friends. You know, I'm the annoying person where every time I'm in my backyard with my friends, I'm like, don't go into my house without doing a tick check. So, you know, having more people like that who can advocate for the prevention side of it will continue to. To lower cases. But I find that in general, our country can be very reactive when it comes to our health.
You know, until they're really, really sick, they're not going to do anything about it.
Or, you know, they. They put off a problem that they may have in October until January because they're just too busy, or they want to start the new year on a new leaf or whatever excuse they may have. Or, you know, they get chronic headaches, so they take Advil. They don't actually go and get their blood work tested. And this is the same thing with. With tick checks.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, preventative medicine at the end of the day is what needs to take place.
And obviously, the best Lyme disease is the one you never get.
[00:26:03] Speaker C: That's the one tick can change your life.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's amazing how well people don't recognize the impact that it can have until you're touched by It. And so, like, you're saying you're. You're just reactive because you're just reacting to now, you're feeling the symptoms, but how much easier is it to, you know, make sure that you never get it?
[00:26:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And. And going back to the legislative piece, you know, there have been a number of bills that have been put forth to our government this year that I think can have a big impact.
A lot of people may be familiar with the Kate Hagen TICK act, which we have to renew this year, but currently we're in a government shut, so hopefully that gets renewed at some point in the near future.
And then what has been done in certain states, like, I think that Illinois and Connecticut have set a precedent in some ways for legislation that should be considered across all of our states. So whether that's signs in parks or wooded areas, in New York, we've introduced a bill that would require the Department of Labor to have information on their website about tick prevention so that those who are working outdoors, whether in the private sector, in the public sector, know what they may be up against.
You know, things like that that are relatively simple, that just increase education a little bit. Stacking all of those up goes a long way. And I would say it's the same thing for prevention, too. You know, there's nothing that is 100% foolproof. It's doing a number of things like the bug spray, like tucking our pants into our socks, like doing effective tickets checks with or without a tickment are all going to keep you safe.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, I mean, that's.
That's the thing is that, you know, if people took these. These steps, and the challenge with Lyme is that symptoms don't always show up right after you've been bitten. You know, so you. You can have been bitten and then, yeah, you're in fairly good health, but then they're stressful events or, or you get another infection, and then all of a sudden, lo and behold, there it is.
So it's not always a direct correlation that you have the bite and then immediately have symptoms. So that's what makes it so confusing, and that's what makes it even more important to do the preventative steps, even though you may not feel symptomatic at the time.
[00:28:43] Speaker C: Yeah, and that's a huge thing that I think we're lacking in education for our doctors is the best way to go about this. Because what I've seen, which is. Is a bit frightening, and I'd love to know your opinion on this, is if someone comes in with A tick bite. And maybe they, they have the tick, maybe they don't. But especially in areas where we know that the, the chance that that tick is carrying something is incredibly high. And a doctor tells you, let's wait to see if you have symptoms dumbs before putting you on antibiotics. I mean, in my mind, that's a very foolish approach to medicine.
[00:29:25] Speaker B: Absolutely. Because, you know, like we just said, is that, you know, it's easier to eradicate or get rid of it right at the time rather than allowing it to settle down and, you know, change forms and get into tissues and, you know, making, becoming antibiotic resistant. And so it's a whole lot easier to grab it right there and then than to try to unravel it, you know, a decade later.
[00:29:58] Speaker C: Yeah. And I find that there's, you know, going to events here in New York, whether they're talking about healthcare or they're talking about climate, I find that their mind is often on everything but tics. You know, maybe in our health, health system a lot. There's a lot of focus right now on longevity.
There's a lot of focus on hormones I'm seeing in women's health. There's a lot of focus on endometriosis. I mean, Lyme can affect a lot of these things, which is obviously caused by ticks. I go to a climate conference, the whole conversation is about malaria. I'm like, malaria is horrible, but we don't really have that here in the United States. So why is, is that the main topic? I mean, there, there's so many times where I feel like Lyme should be a part of the conversation. And usually in many cases it's, it's more important than what they're discussing just based off the amount, sheer amount of people who are getting bit by ticks and experiencing these health issues, and yet there's very little push to do. So.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: I, I'm curious, what is your opinion that, that, that is so, you know, because that I, I would assume that a lot of these people are aware of Lyme, but they're choosing not to communicate or, or address it in any way. You know, why, why do you think that is?
[00:31:27] Speaker C: So I think most people have a pretty surface level understanding of ticks and Lyme disease.
They're open to education. They just haven't sought it out for themselves, probably because they may not know anyone personally or at least close enough for them to do their own research.
But I find that the minute someone either feels that they may have Lyme disease, have a friend or a family Member that may have Lyme disease, and they start doing a little bit of research, they end up down that rabbit hole. And so it's, you know, how do we just get one level deeper for the general population on their understanding? You know, how do we get them to understand that this is not just a northeast problem for dogs like I thought it was? How do we get them to understand that, you know, a simple round of antibiotics is going to make sure that, you know, they. They don't get sick?
And so just that having a little bit more knowledge about ticks and Lyme become general knowledge, I think, will allow for a hu. Change in our society's approach.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: And do you think the challenge is sometimes the complexity, and that's why they are not wanting to really step into that? Because I know the medical model a lot of times is, you know, this disease, that drug, and that doesn't really fit Lyme because it is such a complex disorder and presents itself in so many different ways.
Do you think that that is a little bit of a deterrent as well in regards to the medical community really embracing it?
[00:33:08] Speaker C: I'm not exactly sure what the issue is among the medical community. I think we still have a lot of doctors who are older and may have been around when Lyme was first being discovered or somewhat shortly after, where there was a lot more controversy around the situation. And those may be the people who are running our hospitals, running our medical teaching programs, you know, creating the actual education within the schools.
But I would feel that the. There's enough research for them to. To change their opinions.
I think that because maybe because Lyme doesn't necessarily have such a fast turnaround time, maybe it's because it can take longer for symptoms to develop or for people to notice symptoms in the first place. People aren't taking as much of an urgent approach to it. Maybe they think, you know, it's got to be relatively easy to cure if it took three years to manifest. I. I'm not exactly sure, but those are. Those are some hypothesis disease.
[00:34:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, and that's what I love. You know, all, you know, like yourself and so many other people that I've had on this line podcast, you know, coming together and try to work hard to find solutions and to drive education so that hopefully our legislators and medical community.
Community becomes more aware due to, you know, public pressure, essentially.
[00:34:59] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, I would love for the medical community to become more aware, but until a person actually gets bit by a tick, the medical community is not involved in that person's care necessarily. And so I think it's just as important that there are PSAs and education for the general public for them to take Tick seriously enough to be wary of them and to protect their family and their children and their friends.
[00:35:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you. Well, Olivia, where. Where can people go to get these mitts? I mean, they. They sound phenomenal.
[00:35:35] Speaker C: Yes, you can buy tick
[email protected] you can also follow us on Instagram at Tick Doc Mit on all of the channels. And we're also available in a lot of independent stores and big box chains. So on our website you can find a store near you if you don't want to buy them online. They're also available on Amazon. Amazon.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: Okay. Love it. And Mitt is with two T's, right?
[00:35:57] Speaker C: M I T T like a mitten.
[00:35:58] Speaker B: Okay. Love it. Perfect. Well, Olivia, this has been wonderful and thank you so much for working hard and kind of education, awareness and then also having a tool that can prevent a lot of people suffering from Lyme. So thank you so much for doing that.
[00:36:17] Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me. And we're just going to keep moving forward. That's all we can do.
[00:36:21] Speaker B: Love it. Thank you so much.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: The information this podcast is for educational purposes only and it's not designed to diagnose or treat any disease. I hope this podcast impacted you as it did me. Please subscribe so that you can be notified when new episodes are released. There are some excellent shows coming up that you do not want to miss. If you're enjoying these podcasts, please take a moment to write a review. And please don't keep this information to yourself. Share them with your family and friends. You never know what piece of information that will transform their lives. For past episodes and powerful information on how to conquer lime, go to integrativelimesolutions.com and an additional powerful resource, limestream.com for Lyme support and group discussions. Join Lyme Conquerors Mentoring Lyme warriors on Facebook.
If you'd like to know more about the cutting edge integrative Lyme therapies my center offers, please visit thecarlfeldcenter.com thank you for spending this time with us and I hope to see you at our next episode of Integrative lyme Solutions with Dr. Karl Feld.
[00:37:38] Speaker C: Sam.
