Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Integrative lyme Solutions with Dr. Karl Felt.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: I am so excited about the show.
[00:00:07] Speaker A: That we have ahead of us.
[00:00:08] Speaker C: We have some phenomenal information that could save lives.
[00:00:13] Speaker A: You're going to need to tune in.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: To what's going on today.
[00:00:16] Speaker C: The information is jam packed, so don't step away.
Hello.
[00:00:24] Speaker B: Thank you so much for joining Integrative lyme Solutions with Dr. Karl Feldt. I am your host, Dr. Michael Karlfeldt. I've been in clinical practice since 1987. I've seen pretty much everything under the sun, worked with so many different Lyme patients, and I know what a devastating disease this is. That's why I'm doing this podcast to make sure that you are armed with the information that you need in order to be able to be successful in your struggle with Lyme. We'll be featuring authors, doctors, professors, and also people like yourself that have gone through the journey that you're going through, that have been where you've been and is now on the other side. And they get to tell their victorious story as to how they battle Lyme so that you can implement that in your life as well. Be sure to like us and write a review on whichever platform that you're listening on. What that does is it enables other people to see us more so that they have access to this information as well. So I'm so excited that you're tuning in and get ready for this upcoming show. It is going to be amazing. Well, today I have the honor of being with Dr. Richard Horowitz. I would say that he is the one of the foremost leader in regards to integrative Lyme therapy, if not the leading expert in that field. So I feel really blessed having him here today. So thank you so much for joining me today, Dr. Horowitz.
[00:02:01] Speaker C: Oh, it's my great pleasure, Michael. Thank you for having me.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Well, so tell me, I mean, how did you end up in this field? I mean, I assume this is not something that when you went to medical school, you know, thinking, I'm going to start dealing with lying.
[00:02:15] Speaker C: No, I don't think there was anybody actually growing up who said to their mother when they were six year old, hey, Ma, guess what I want to do when I get older. I want to be a Lyme doctor. I don't. I'm not really sure anybody actually said that. It was really just complete coincidence.
I had finished my internal medicine training at Mount Sinai Services at Elmhurst Hospital in Queens. I was from Bayside, Queens. I grew up there.
And when I was Finishing my residency, you know, my mom wanted to open me up a place in Bayside. And Vassar Hospital, that was up in Poughkeepsie, New York, about two hours north, was also offering me a position and saying, hey, why don't you open up an internal medicine practice here? We'll help you to get set up. It also just so happens that there was a monastery, a Tibetan monastery. I had been studying Tibetan Buddhist meditation at that point for about, I don't know, maybe 10 years or so. And there was a monastery very close by to where the hospitals were. And I knew the lama who was running the center, and I knew his lama Kalarinpa. So I thought, you know, let me go up and just check it out. And I loved the area. It was beautiful mountains and rivers. And I thought, you know, I could do internal medicine. I could still get some meditation training. And of course, what I didn't know at the time is I was walking into the largest Lyme epidemic area in the United States at the time, which was Dutchess County, New York. So it was really just by, you know, sheer coincidence, or call it kismet, karma, call it whatever you want, but I guess I was meant to be here and I was meant to, you know, figure out the solutions for this illness.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: Well, I know you blessed the countless number of people with what you've done. I'm curious though, because a lot of medical doctors, because you're not the only one in that area, and there are a lot of medical doctors that still don't feel that Lyme is. I mean, that is the real issue, the underlying factor for a lot of these chronic diseases. So what made you kind of shift your mindset thinking that whatever we're doing is not enough? You know, we gotta go further and look further. Yeah. And look more at it.
[00:04:17] Speaker C: So, you know, I probably told this story many times, but I think it's always worth bearing repeating. When I was finishing my seventh year of medical training, I was doing this at the University of Brussels. It was the Free University of Brussels in Belgium. And it was a seven year medical program. So very intensive. It was like two years of nutritional biochemistry and two years of anatomy, a year of dermatology, a year of ent. It was really intensive. So I'm in my seventh year. And I went to Lama Gendan Rinpoche, who was the Tibetan llama who gave me refuge. And I said to him, llama, I'm about to become a doctor, go back to the United States. What do you want me to know? Like, what's the most important thing I should know. And he said, richard, the most important thing is compassion. Put yourself in people's shoes and do for them what you would want done for yourself if you were ill. Now that's kind of a standard thing that, you know, Buddhists talk about, like love wanting other people to be happy and compassion wanting other people to be free from suffering. That was nothing new. It's like, okay, I would have expected that. But interestingly enough, so I'm, you know, I'm up here in Dutchess county and I start seeing all these people with em erythema migrans, rashes. And 75 to 80% of them were getting better with amoxicillin or doxycycline, but at least 25% of them weren't. And I would send them to infectious disease doctors and rheumatologists and all the subspecialists, neurologists, and nobody could figure out what was wrong with them. So I realized that thought, that explanation that Daniel Rinpoche gave me of like, put yourself in people's shoes. It's like, well, I would want a doctor to go look for solutions if I was ill. So I started attending. At that point, it was Karen Forchner who was doing the Lyme Disease foundation conferences down in New York City. That's where I met for the first time Ken Leetner and Sam Danta and Joe Boriscano. Right. Who are the, you know, the guys that I, whose shoulders I stood upon. Right. And so I got my first kind of taste of like, oh, longer term antibiotics will work for some of these patients.
And then I started learning about Babesia, this tick borne parasite. And at the time, just as I'd come back from one of the conferences, this young woman in a wheelchair, she'd been in a wheelchair for five years, unable to walk. She was paralyzed from the waist down. When I took a history, she had just come to see me. She had drenching sweats and she was in her 30s. It wasn't, you know, menopause. And I ruled her out for things like hyperthyroidism. She had never traveled outside the country for malaria. She didn't have a cough, she didn't have non Hodgkin's lumbar tb. In other words, I ruled her out for all the things that would have caused sweats. And I said, this sounds like Babesia that I just learned at the Lyme conference. So we sent out her blood to Igenics laboratories and lo and behold, we found that she had a positive Babesia fish test. And also PCRs were positive in the blood. We found a lot of antibody testing positive in her and others. I gave her ten days of Mepronazithromax. These were the days when those drugs actually worked for Babesia. And lo and behold, in the next several months, she got up out of a wheelchair and started walking. And then a year later, as other people were coming in, this one woman couldn't talk, like no words were coming out of her mouth. She was literally aphasic, like she had had a stroke. I found Bartonella, and I found a treatment for Bartonella with doxycycline. At the time I was using, I think, Avalox, Moxifloxacin. For the first time in years, the woman started talking. And what started happening is little by little, all these people that were coming in with these chronic fatiguing musculoskeletal, cardiovascular, pulmonary, neuropsychiatric illnesses. I was discovering up to 16, what I call 16 nails in their foot. And I had to find all the overlapping factors. Like, you know, you go to a doctor with foot pain, doctor finds one nail, pulls it out, but, you know, didn't get to the other 15. I ended up finding over the next decade or 15, 20 years, up to 16 factors keeping these people ill. And six of these factors were things that drive inflammation. And on the top of the list was Lyme disease, chronic Lyme. I mean, it is a chronic persistent infection in many of these people, but also chronic parasitic infections like Babesia and chronic Bartonella. But also I was finding toxins. I started finding a lot of mold toxins, mycotoxins, and heavy metal toxins. And there was a group of people, when I chelated the heavy metals or pulled out the mold, all of a sudden they said, wow, my fatigue and my brain fog and my pain is better. And then we found issues with the microbiome of the gut, or they had leaky gut and food sensitivities driving the inflammatory response. We got them off their allergic foods and their mast cell activation was treated and they got better. And of course, these people don't sleep, which drives inflammation. We got them to sleep, and finally they had, like, vitamin and mineral deficiency. So what came about after seeing, at this point, it's over 13,000 of these chronically ill people is six of these factors, right, Were causing inflammation. It was like rivers of inflammation causing an ocean of inflammation. And as we know, inflammation is the number one factor in both acute and chronic disease that causes fatigue, pain, brain fog, mood changes, depression. It's Always due to inflammation. But there were 10 downstream effects of the inflammation. And it was everything from my autonomic nervous system didn't work that controls my blood pressure. So they would get POTS dysautonomia, just like they're getting at this point with Long Covid. And they were getting it with mold also and Bartonella. But they also had mitochondrial dysfunction. The part of their cells was being affected that makes energy, which affects all the organs in your body. Or the hormones got thrown off because the inflammation was affecting your pituitary gland, the master regulator of hormones. In the brain, where the liver was thrown off, they had neurological psychological dysfunction, they had autoimmune reactions happening. So we developed this 16 point model called what I eventually called MSIDS, multiple systemic infectious Disease Syndrome. And we discovered it wasn't one thing keeping them sick. It ended up being all these overlapping factors. And you know, in all these years I've been looking to find, are, are there any other factors that I can account for why these people are sick? And it always comes back to something on the 16 point McIDS map, even when Long Covid came about. I published an article back in 2018 in the journal Healthcare on 200 people who we screened for the EMSIDS model and all 16 factors showed up in Long Covid at this point. So it's applying for Alzheimer's disease. I've looked it up and checked it. It's applying for ADD, ADHD, autism, ALS, cardiovascular, and like every disease, I look up the 16 point model. So I got a contract from Simon and Schuster and I'm now writing my third science book, which is taking the EMCIDS model and applying it to all these different diseases and showing how the paradigm we're using for chronic disease medicine, which doesn't work because 86% of our healthcare costs and 70% of our deaths in this country are due to chronic disease and we don't have a model to treat it. So I'm proposing we need a paradigm shift which is getting to the root causes of why these people are ill and using the MSIDS model as a starting point. And it seems to be very helpful for a broad range of chronic diseases. So it's kind of interesting. I started in one place thinking as an internist I'd be doing standard disease, then found of course, Lyman tick borne. And now I'm realizing like the model and what I've been doing is starting to apply to like a whole range of chronic diseases. So it's very interesting, after 40 years in medicine, kind of like where this journey has led me. But, you know, fortunately, a lot of people have benefited and I do feel blessed that, you know, I've been put in a place where I can benefit so many people. It's a great thing.
[00:11:46] Speaker D: Hello, dear listeners, this is Dr. Michael Karlfeld, your host of integrative Lyme solutions. Today I'm excited to share an exclusive opportunity from the Karlfeld center Center where we blend healing power of nature with groundbreaking therapies to combat Lyme disease and its associated challenges. At the Karfeld center, we're not just fighting Lyme, we're revolutionizing the way it's treated with cutting edge therapies like photodynamic therapy, full body ozone IV therapy, silver IVs, brain rebalancing, autonomic response testing, laser energetic detoxification, and more. We aim to eradicate Lyme. Our approach is comprehensive, supporting your body's immune system, detoxification processes, hormonal balance and mitochondrial health, ensuring a holistic path to recovery. Understanding Lyme disease and its impact is complex, which is why we're offering a free 15 minute discovery call with one of our Lyme literate naturopathic doctors. This call is your first step towards understanding how we can personalize your healing journey, focusing on you as a whole person, not just your symptoms. Our team, led by myself, Dr. Michael Karlfields, is here to guide you through your recovery with the most advanced diagnostic tools, individualized treatment plans and supportive therapies designed to restore your health and vitality. Whether you're facing Lyme disease head on or seeking preventative strategies, we're committed to your wellness. Take the first step towards reclaiming your health. Visit us at thecarlfolcenter.com or call us at 208-338-8902 to schedule your free discovery call. At the Carl Feldtz Center. We believe in healing naturally, effectively and holistically. Thank you for tuning in into integrative lyme solution with Dr. Karlfeld. Remember, true health is not just the absence of disease, it's achieving the abundance of vitality. Let's discover yours together.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It is amazing to see how you know, you have the tick borne, you have heavy metals, you have, I mean, all these different factors, how they kind of symptomology is expressing itself in very similar fashion, no matter kind of where you start in that process. So how when people go through, you're looking then for the 60 nails in the foot, so to say, and they go through your questionnaire, does that then guide them as to in regards to where to start? You know, what, what is the next step? Where do I. Where do I need to kind of unravel the, you know, the yarn, so to say.
[00:14:26] Speaker C: Yeah, so. So the questionnaire that I developed, which was initially based on Dr. Boriscano's questionnaire years ago, what we did is we validated it in 1600 people from three medical practices. And I did this with State University of research in New Pals, my good friend Dr. Phyllis Freeman and Mary Esaterra.
We discovered on this questionnaire, when you score the questionnaire, if you score over 63, very high probability, in fact, that you have chronic Lyme. But especially when you look at the questionnaire, what's interesting is migratory joint pain, migratory muscle pain, and especially migratory nerve pain. Tingling, numbness, burning, stabbing sensations. It's the hallmark of chronic Lyme. Now, it could be in some cases that Bartonella is overlapping, because when we did this questionnaire, we didn't have actually the tools to know how many people really had Bartonella or not. But it definitely. Even Alan Steere early on when he was looking at acute Lyme, we found migratory pain being the hallmark. So we can't really say what other points on the MSIDS model are overlapping. The only ones I can really tell from the questionnaire is Babesia, because question one, which is fevers, day sweats, night sweats, chills, flushing. Question 22, air hunger, can't catch my breath, unexplained cough. Those are very classic for Babesia, once we've ruled out other causes. But of course, these same symptoms are seen with chronic fatigue syndrome, myalgic encephalomyelitis, fibromyalgia, some of these other diseases, you always have to do a differential diagnosis. Now, what we do is once we, we send out a Lyme test to Igenics, and I will use the local labs. I mean, I have nothing against Quest or LabCorp, but the problem with using them is they only check for one strain of Borrelia burgdorferi, the organism that causes Lyme. And there's many strains in the United States and of course, Europe that cause Lyme disease. It's called Borrelia burgdorferi sensus. Strict to all these different strains, igenics with their immunoblots, checks at least eight of the strains. So I play a game with my patients called Lyme bingo. And if any one of the five numbers on the immunoblot shows up, it's like, bingo. You have been exposed to a Borrelia species, and Those numbers are 23, the outer surface protein C31, the outer surface protein A34, the outer surface protein B39 and or the 8393. But we also will check for Babesia immunoblots in the Babesia fish, you know, if they have sweats and chills. And we're finding Babesia in anywhere between 60 to 80% of our patients. Bart is out someplace between 80 to 90% on a Bartonella immunoblot or Bart fish. And you know, we also use T labs. Galaxy Labs is also an excellent lab for looking for it. But I do use the standard labs, you know, to screen like for the immune system like Lyme and Bartonella as well as mold toxins. Even long Covid affects your immune system. So I want to check your CD4, CD8 cells, your natural killer cells, your immunoglobulins, your subclasses. Because many people have immune deficiency just from getting Lyme, Bartonella, mold and long Covid. I want to check for heavy metals in your blood. Mercury, lead, arsenic, cadmium, aluminum, sometimes urine challenges. I want to check the minerals in your body that are needed for detoxification in the serum and also in the red blood cells. But I also want to check like for mast cell markers, histamine, chromogranidate, tryptase. So you know, when people come to me the first time I see them, I mean, I hate to say it, but it's like the red cross giving blood. I mean, I'm pulling out probably a half a pint of blood from people the first time I see them. And that's it. I mean, after that there's not that many blood tests. And I'm giving them a mold test because I'm finding like 80 to 90% are exposed to mold toxins, even the ones that don't think they have mold. I'm seeing exposure probably from climate will, all these hurricane damaged buildings or you know, poorly constructed homes. We had it here in our home, we had to do a renovation. And I checked the adrenals number one first, you know, dhea, cortisol, salivary test. Again, simply because we find the adrenals and the hormones are affected in the vast majority of these people. So I am kind of screening for a lot of these factors on the MSIDS model when people come in because if they have low adrenals, they don't respond to the treatments as well. If they have mold, they don't respond to the treatment as well. If they've got, you know, overlapping long Covid, they may not respond to dapsone combination therapy, which I'm finding is very effective for Lyme and bart. You know as well, if I find Babesia, the old drugs don't work so well anymore. With clindamycin, quinine or mepronazithromax, I have to start using Tafenaquin and atovaquon or Malone. So a lot of the screening happens the first time I see patients and the screening I do, you can find it in my book how can I Get Better? Solving the mystery of Lyme or An action plan for treating Lyme and Chronic Disease. Same. By the way, the same overview I do is in the healthcare article published in 2018. So, you know, we always want to look at those MSIDS factors because even if you find Lyme, even if you find Babesia or Bart, we're always finding these overlapping factors driving inflammation or causing downstream effects from the inflammation which are making the milk. But, but ultimately the toxins and the infections are kind of at the top of the list. I mean, we find that once we effectively hit Lyme Babesia bar and treat toxins like mold, 80 to 90% of those people tell us they feel much better, but we still have to deal with their pots. Dysautonomia, the emotional trauma that a lot of these people have had, you know, they, they've been gaslit by a lot of physicians who say it's all in your head. Right? They go from doctor to doctor searching for answers. So we still address all of these things. But the good news for patients, which is, you know, hope I can say that's grounded in real science and in clinical experiences. These people do get better now. And thank God for the university researchers, like 10 years ago when Hopkins and Stanford and Kim Lewis's lab and the University of New Haven all discovered that Lyme and Bartonella were biofilm persister bacteria. That changed the game for me. Where. And that's where all of a sudden I looked at the literature and said, gee, I wonder how these mycobacterium drugs that we use for TB and leprosy work. And they have been a game changer. My wife is six years in full remission since she did dapsome combination therapy. She was sick for 25 years. And these are short term oral protocols. I don't use IV Rocephin anymore. I don't use any IV drugs. I mean these are, this is a nine week oral protocol, all generic drugs. It's a lot of pills, don't get me wrong, it's 70, 80 pills by the time you're done easily. And if you have bart, it's every two months. It's a two week pulse with high dose dapsone. But the good news is it's doable.
And the protocol, the way I developed it is anyone in the world can do this. And I published all the work in microorganisms in September 2023. Any doctor can read this article and it's like a cookbook. It's like, hey, how do you do dapsone? It's like, read microorganisms September. The whole thing is listed there. What blood test you do, when do you do an ekg? What drugs do you have to stop when you do methylene blue? Like, it's all in the article. And I'm starting a consultation service also with doctors as I'm, you know, cutting back on doing as much one on one. So if doctors need help, they can contact my medical office medical and I'll hold their hand if they're scared to do dapsone because it, you know, it does have side effects that scare some of the doctors with anemia and high methemoglobin levels. But honestly, you don't need to be scared. You should be more scared about these chronic infections ruining people's lives than about, you know, using dapsone. And I tell people, look, if you had lung cancer and you knew you had a chemotherapeutic regimen with radiation therapy that really could give you a good chance of a cure, you would do it if you knew you would live well. Chemotherapy and radiation therapy, a lot of times you get chemotherapy, brain fog and you get long term neuropathy, but you're alive. Well, dapsone, not easy. It's a tough regimen. Your HERCS badly creates a lot of inflammation, but there's no long term side effects, right? The anemia goes away, the methemoglobin goes away, right? So I mean, you don't really have to worry about the long term side effects. You just kind of, kind of get used to the fact that it'll drop your Blood counts by 4 grams of hemoglobin on the average and sometimes more. So it's just a matter of getting used to the protocol. But I've treated a lot of doctors at this point with the protocol, a lot of them with this one doctor in Virginia at this point, she was sick for 10 years, couldn't work, got her medical license and got sick from Lyme. She did the nine week oral Dapsone protocol. She's so. Well, she's 100%. She's applying back for a medical license.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: She.
[00:23:11] Speaker C: She's going back to work after 10 years of not even being a physician. Now, understand that is like the home run out of the park when I got to the first, you know, @ the Bay. That is not the way this goes for most people. But it's great when it happens, so I feel very encouraged. And we're now applying. I'm working with Eva Garland consulting, and I found a great statistician from Empirostat. Nicole. We are applying for NIH grants for a multicenter placebo controlled randomized trial of Dapsone. So I can prove to the world, yes, we have an answer for chronic Lyme as well as bart. In fact, I believe we have actually an answer for many chronic diseases.
If I can get the larger grant called the DARPA grant, I'd love to look at chronic fatigue, me, fibro, long Covid, and chronic Lyme because the symptoms are all the same. Fatigue, brain fog, muscle pain, joint pain, neuropathy, dysautonomia, where your blood pressure is low. The symptoms are exactly the same. How many of these people actually have Lyman Bart or have mold and don't even know it? And considering that a large percentage of the American population suffers from long Covid from chronic fatigue, me from fibromyalgia from chronic Lyme, we're talking like, that would be a great NIH grant. So I'm, like, really crossing my fingers. I'm shooting for the moon, and we'll see. With RFK coming in as HHS secretary, who knows, maybe I'll have an easier time getting some of these studies done. Who knows?
[00:24:36] Speaker B: That'd be awesome. I mean, I mean, because that has always been the struggle. I mean, as you're aware of and everyone else that's batting Lyme is to that recognition of the disease that they're battling. And then also having, you know, doctors out there that recognize that this is something real and it's not just in their head.
[00:24:54] Speaker C: No. And the really sad part about this is that, I mean, it's very real, and it causes depression, and it causes anxiety, and it causes obsessive compulsive disorder, and it causes schizophrenia and psychosis, as does Bartonella. So, you know, the issue is all these people out there with these neuropsychiatric symptoms with severe depression and anxiety, and these kids with suicidal ideation, and there are people who take their lives every year because they're so depressed, and also they think there's no hope. They do not Realize that these infections and these toxins are in their body, and that in many cases, these are reversible conditions. You do not have to live with this for the rest of your life. And, you know, I think we're in a new era of medicine. I. I mean, I joke with people, but if anybody ever went into some of these psychiatric hospitals and went on to the wards and tested people with some of these really severe psychiatric conditions, I will guarantee you you will find Lyman Bartonellan toxins in at least a certain percentage of them where they don't have to be on these drugs for the rest of their lives, and they may actually have a, you know, a functional good life. We've just missed the boat. I don't think people have realized that mental health and microbes. You know, Bob Bransfield talks about it all the time in his work, but mental health and microbes are intimately related, and inflammation is driving all of it with. Especially with toxins getting in. So we're in a kind of a new era. You know, we're in the middle of a chronic disease epidemic. At least one out of two Americans right now suffers from a chronic illness, and certain percentage has more than one. So we've really got to get to the root causes of why Americans are sick. And there's not a doubt in my mind that this is an epidemic of Lyme. I don't use the word lightly. BMJ Global Health published just a couple of years back that 14.5% of the global population has now been exposed to Lyme. That's one in seven people on the planet. So if somebody tells me from, like, Oklahoma, oh, there's no lime in Oklahoma. It's like, excuse me, there's Lyme everywhere. They found ticks on penguins in Antarctica. I mean, you can't go anywhere at this point without finding ticks and the toxins. Even in Alaska, right? They're finding toxins in the whales. I mean, you can't. We're living in a toxic planet filled with infections, and we have to account for this. Now when doctors are seeing patients, I don't think we're doing a good enough job looking at these infections and toxins and all these factors that drive inflammation.
[00:27:16] Speaker B: And what do you feel? Because obviously, Borrelia existed for four eons. I mean, existed for a long, long time. I mean, why do you feel that we're seeing such an explosion now? I mean. Yeah, versus looking like 50 years ago. I mean, it existed at that time, but now it's so prevalent.
[00:27:35] Speaker C: So I think there's several factors. The first is climate change. So as we have global warming and we just had the warmest year on record and even though the Paris Agreement didn't think we were going to hit 1.5 for a long time, we've kind of hit it. And even in Antarctica, I mean parts of the Arctic are four times warmer than we even are seeing here. So what happens with the insects reproductive rates is ticks, mosquitoes, fleas, all of these insects reproductive rates are directly linked to their ambient outside temperature. When you raise the outside temperature, the reproductive rates of these insects. So the tick borne, the ticks are exploding, right? I mean we're not just seeing exodus ticks, we're seeing lone star ticks, we're seeing, you know, dog ticks, Rocky Mountain wood ticks, Amboma americanum. I mean we're seeing all kinds of ticks. Even the Gulf coast tick, which normally was in the Gulf coast, it's now in Staten Island.
We're seeing these ticks just spread all over.
And I mean, what am I going to tell you? I mean the climate is really number one. The other thing is the predators, like you know, normally the mice are actually the real carriers, right, of where this is coming from with lime. It's not just the deer and because of the coyote population, right, which are affecting the foxes, which are affecting the mice. So I mean the whole ecosystem is out of balance. And I was thinking, by the way, initially it was the coyotes affecting the foxes because I had this beautiful red fox in our backyard that grew up with my dog Molly and they would play together in the backyard chasing each other.
It was the greatest thing because the fox would come and get fed. She was so beautiful, so intelligent and she got mange and unfortunately we never saw her again. So the mange is actually affecting the red fox population in the northeast and killing them off. And again, why are we seeing sarcoptes scabies from mites? Climate change. So it's all coming back to the climate that is raising a lot of these infectious diseases.
And it's the same thing with the mosquito borne diseases. I mean we're seeing an increase in dengue fever, monkeypox, right? Bird flu, triple E, oripush virus. Whoever heard of Oropouche virus? I mean, years ago we're seeing all of these different viruses now starting to come out. It's all associated ever since we were inside with COVID and warming up the climate. We're seeing a lot of these different bacterial viral infections, even new fungal infections, right, that are starting to affect people. So ultimately, I think it's the climate that's driving a lot of this at this point. But you're right, I mean, Lyme has been around just as Babesi has been millions of years. But I think what's happened with the ticks, though, is that the amount of CO infections in the ticks, it has gotten more and more and more. So now that when you get a tick bite, Babesia comes in a good portion of the time, up to like 80% of the time, I think it's being transmitted at this point.
So we're seeing a lot of these CO infections transmitted at the same point. And people are getting multiple tick bites, right? They're very small, they don't see them. The nymphs are barely visible and the larvae, you really can't see at all. And some of these larvae are able to transmit infection. So I think there's a lot of reason why we're seeing so much.
[00:30:45] Speaker B: And yeah, for people, I mean, we do want to be outside, we do want to be out in the forest, enjoy sunshine, and all of that is really healthy for us. But you know, it, knowing this, there is a certain fear then to be out in the forest and be out and enjoying having your kids run around in the bushes and so forth. So are there things that people can do?
Supplements, oral herbs, you know, things they can do to mitigate a lot of the risk and feel a bit more secure, that, you know, maybe they can handle this better.
[00:31:17] Speaker C: The two things that people can do, and I really advise them to do both because I've seen sometimes when they do one and not the other, it can fail.
There are sprays that you can put on your skin that are safe. I carry, I have a bottle of picoridin, 20%. I found the lower dose, 5 and 10%, does not repel mosquitoes, at least for me, because I sweat a lot, I have a lot of carbon dioxide and heat. The mosquitoes are attracted to me. Now on our property, we have over 4 acres of property and we have New York tick control. Dave and Rich Minman. They're Wonderful. We have 50 bait boxes around our property. So when the mice go in and feed off the oats, we're killing the ticks with permethrin while the tick, while the mice are in there. So if you use a spray, I'm not a big fan of deet, it's not great for kids. Lemon eucalyptus is probably the closest you're going to get to pick aridin. 20% if you're pregnant. IR3535. It's an amino acid based product. It's safe. They used it in Europe for over 30 years. Safe in pregnancy, not as effective but but still gives you some protection that's on the skin. But you basically use permethrin treated clothing. You can either buy the clothing the army and the military, they have permethritreated clothing for the military. Or you take clothes that you like that you're going to use outside, you take them outside and you spray it with permethrin spray. Don't wear it while you're doing it. Let it dry and it's good actually for a couple of washings. And the permethrin will kill the ticks While the Picoridin 20% will repel the ticks or the mosquitoes. And if you do the two of those doing frequent tick checks, right, if you're on trails, stay in the middle. Don't get on the side of the trails because that's where they're questing. That's where they're looking for a host. But I mean we go outside all the time but we just make sure we take precautions when we do it. I mean you don't want to miss the outdoors. It's, it's this, this world is too beautiful to miss it. But that's the precaution. And the reason you need to do frequent tick checks is that bugs like the Powassan virus can get in within 15 minutes of an Ixodes tick bite. Within 15 minutes. Rickettsia, Rickettsia, Rocky Mountain spotted fever can get in within 10 minutes. And the all time winner is Borrelia hermsi relapsing fever that gets in within five minutes.
So you really need to do tick checks even if you're doing permethrin treated clothing. Picoridin and don't get me wrong, you're in good shape. I mean people say wear light colored clothing but not everybody's wearing white pants, white socks and everything going outside. You look like a nerd. I mean God bless you if you do it but I'm not sure most people do it. But you know, doing chick chats is reasonable. And always carry a tick removal device on you. I got one from my Genx years ago. It's got a little, you know, my little microscope there. You can see the ticks and it gets underneath it and you know, you just pull them straight up. Of course do not squeeze the tick. Do not put Vaseline or gasoline or you know, and our match on it because that Regurgitates, you know, the organisms in there.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that, that. I mean, because that is what we were taught in the past. You know, put a little match on it or, you know, tweezer and all of that. And obviously we learned that that is the worst thing to do.
And you also mentioned kind of the evolution, sort of say, in how you've been treating Lyme disease and the different co infections. Why do you feel that it has changed? I mean, why are tools that used to work not working anymore? And why? Why the change?
[00:34:38] Speaker C: So years ago, I knew that Lyme persisted. I mean, there's a, you know, there's a big controversy among the medical doctors. Does Lyme persist? And the answer is, yes, it persists. Of course it persists. Anybody who's been doing this, who's seen 13,000 patients the way I have, knows it persists. We see positive PCRs in the blood. I mean, yes, it persists. But I thought it persisted years ago because of what I would call a form called the cystic form or cell wall form. Cell wall deficient form, S form, L form, round body form. There's lots of names for it. So what the bacteria does is it has a cell wall form and that's how it actively replicates. And if you take amoxicillin or you take a cephalosporin like ceftin or Omniceph or IV or suffin, it hits the actively growing forms and it's hitting these cell wall forms of the bacteria. There's also the bug goes inside the cells intracellular. The drugs that go intracellular, tetracyclines like doxycycline, minnow, zithrimax, rifampin, those are all drugs that go inside the cells.
But then there were these, what they called cystic forms, cell wall deficient. The drugs we were using years ago were plaquenil hydroxychloroquine, hits the cystic forms. Grapefruit seed extracts hits the cystic forms. And I was the first doctor years ago with Dr. Martinet Kibar to find that flag.
We used it for H. Pylori treatment and found that actually alone it used. We thought, okay, it's the cystic forms, which is why the bugs are persisting. What we didn't know up until about 10 years ago is that there was another form of the bacteria called these biofilm persister forms. And as I said earlier, it was discovered by John Hopkins researchers and researchers at Kim Lewis's lab at Northeastern and Eva Shopping's lab at the University of New Haven. And the reason this was a game changer is that most of the chronic infections we know about are biofilm persistor bacteria. So when you talk about getting a chronic sinus infection or you talk about getting a candida yeast infection in your gut, or even salmonella, even chronic prostatitis in men, these are all chronic biofilm infections. So what you have to do is you have to open up the biofilms and use certain drugs to get at them. Same thing with otitis media in kids. There are biofilm infections, which is why it doesn't get better. But we didn't know for Lyme disease or Bartonella that that was the case. So once I discovered it was a biofilm persistor bacteria, I said, well, if leprosy and TB are persister bacteria, right, they're very slow growing or they stop growing altogether, they go dormant, which is why they're difficult to kill and they're intracellular inside the cells and under biofilms. I said, well, gee, I wonder what would happen if I took biofilm agents, opened up the biofilms so the immune system could recognize the bugs, and then use the same types of treatments we use for like TB or leprosy. So I went to the literature and when I was at Mount Sinai, at Elmhurst Hospital in the city hospitals years ago, this goes back to the early 80s, we were treating a lot of HIV patients who all had TB. They either had regular tuberculosis or they had a form called mai, Mycobacterium avium intracellular. I got very used to using drugs like inh, rifampin, pyrazinamide, ethambutol, and I got very comfortable because the main doctor who trained me was an infectious disease physician. So now fast forward, you know, years later, I look at leprosy, a persister bacteria, and I look at dapsone and I look at the properties of the drug.
First of all, it's anti inflammatory. As we just talked about, every symptom you get in every chronic disease, including chronic Lyme, is due to inflammation. Okay, number one, check it off, it hits. Myeloperoxidase, lowers inflammation. Great. Number two, great penetration in the brain. Okay, maybe I wouldn't have to use IV drugs. Turns out I don't have to. When I use this drug. Number three, it has antimalarial effects. It's like, hold on, most of these people have Babesia, they have parasites, has antimalarial effects. Okay, check it off. Number three, number four, it is a persister drug that is used for treating these Persister bacteria. It's like, oh, my God, this is almost too good. And then the fifth is it's used for autoimmunity. They've used dapsone for years for treating autoimmune conditions. And we know that Borrelia burgdorferi, the agent of Lyme, causes autoimmune conditions, as does environmental toxins. So it's like it had all five qualities. And I went, all right, I'm just going to treat these people like they had leprosy. But I'm going to do one other thing. Let me add doxy to rifamp and dapsone that they use for leprosy. Let's see how it works. It was a home run out of the park on day one.
So going back to 2016, I published the first study on dapsone, either alone or in combination. And at the time, we were trying doses like between 25 milligrams and 100 with refampin without rifampin with doxy. And we found it definitely worked. So, but what we also found is once we stopped the drug, people would relapse. Although they told us they got a lot of help from the drug, we then went up on the drug to 100 milligrams. 100 milligrams work better than 25 milligrams. And then we did a study with Dr. Eva Shoppi's lab, and we found out that when we put dapsone in culture, and it turns out that John Hopkins did the same thing, they looked at these sulfur drugs like dapsone, and they found out that four drugs, like if you put dapsone in combination with three other drugs, four drugs work better than three, three works work better than two. So two drugs are better than one. So there's. Doctor Using, like, single drug therapies. I'm just telling you right now, you're missing the boat here. We did the same study in Eva Shopping's lab. Same thing. If you did dapsone alone, it hit the biofilm persister bacteria, it lowered it significantly. But if you added doxy to it, it worked better. If you added doxy rifampin to dapsone, it worked even better. And then if you added doxyrefamp and zithromax to dapsone, it was the most effective. So then we tried that protocol. 100 milligrams, 200 people published it in 2018, 19. Great. But still we were seeing relapses. And most of the relapses we were seeing were babesia Bartonella and these overlapping MSID factors. Well, then, of course, God always does great things for me. He has patients make mistakes. And a patient came in to see me who was sick for years, who was supposed to be on 100 AdaptOne, comes into my office after three months and goes, doc, I'm sick as a dog. I go, all right, what are you taking? I'm taking doxy twice a day, rifampin twice a day, and dapsone twice a day. When? Oh, no, no, no, no. You're taking too much dapsone. Stop it. Come back in a month. Comes back in a month and goes, I feel great. I went, huh? He said, my fatigue, my joint pain, it's all better. Just the neuropathy didn't get better because he had chronic variable immune deficiency and small fiber neuropathy. But all of his other symptoms were gone after one month at 100 of Dapsone twice a day. I said, listen, do not take any more meds. I'm going to follow you for a year. It came in in three months remission, six months remission. I turned to my wife after this, got to like a year. I said, honey, you would like to be a guinea pig. Because she had taken 50 of dapsone, felt great, relapsed, and was PCR positive for Lyme in her blood, took 100 of dapsone for six months, felt better, stopped it, relapsed, she did one month of double dos dapsone, and she's been in remission for six years. So it's like, okay, hold on here. Now we're discovering it's not just the drug and the combination, it's the dose of the drug and the length of time that's needed to kill these bugs. So then we published a study on double dose dapsone and found about a third of those patients did very well. In fact, it was something like 57% with PTLDS went into remission for a year, 43% went to remission. So once we got to double dose, we saw long term remission for a year, somewhere between 40, 50, 55%. But still, the ones that failed it had active bartonella by fish or active Babesia. Same situation. Another patient comes in and accidentally doubles double dose dapsone and has 400 of dapsone on board. So, by the way, this is kind of like, you know, whenever I needed to find something, the universe always provided me with someone who was going to make the mistake and know that I was going to listen to them and see what happened. And it turned out that this patient that took four days, almost four days of high dose 400 milligrams went into remission for over a year. I then published a study on four days of dapsone. High dose. After double dose, more patients went into remission. Still didn't work for bart. Went back to John Hopkins. Oh no. You need six days in culture for Bartonella with either Rifamp and Zithrimax and methylene blue. We extended it from four days to six days. Lo and behold, that's how we now have the protocol we now use, which is eight weeks of the double dose dapsone protocol followed by six days of high dose dapsone. If you have bart, four days. If you don't have bart, you only have chronic Lyme. And then you may need pulses every two months. For Bartonella, with just six days of high dose dapsone, it's only like 13 or 14 days of antibiotics every two months. While I'm not working on the antibiotics though, killing the bugs, I'm pulling out the mold toxins. I'm working on your adrenals. I'm making sure you're doing Annie Hopper DNRs or Gupta Air or some form of limbic neuro retraining. Right. So I'm working on all the other emsids factors and usually takes about a year. But we get people usually through the protocols, especially for bart. Vast majority now are doing very, very well and there's certainly a lot of them that are in long term remission. So I, the reason I can now tell you I'm so hopeful and why I'm in fact doing an NIH randomized multicenter placebo trial. I would not be attempting to do this trial if I wasn't sure about the results. Right. There's no way I'm going to put myself out there if I don't already know what the results are going to be. So I'm ready to do it, to prove it to the world. We have answers. We definitely have answers.
[00:44:47] Speaker B: And that's the thing, is that we know the world or the powers that be wants someone like this to fail, you know, to, to, to prove you wrong. And because this has been kind of, there's been so many doctors that have gone after, you know, because they were treating Lyme or seeing patients with, with Lyme disease, you know, so now to bring that out officially to say, here we got the study, this is the protocol. It's not just two weeks of doxy and, and they're, then you're Cured. You know, this is, this is what you need to do. It's a real thing. I mean, that's a huge deal. That's a big deal.
[00:45:22] Speaker C: Yeah. No, and I tell doctors there's 10 Dapsone studies at this point published. And one of them was from Tufts University by Monica Embers. She published it last year. And she showed in mice, in the animal model that rifampin and dapsone cured Lyme. There was no more Borrelia burgdorferi, whereas they just used oxylone or something. It persisted. So we have an animal model showing a cure, we have a culture model, we have eight clinical studies with about 400 patients altogether. So what I tell doctors in their medical records is take all articles, take all 10 Dapsone articles when you're going to use Dapsone and put it in your electronic medical records. So if you were a dinosaur like I was using actually written notes up until this year, we just had a scan in all our records, put those in there. So if, God forbid, an insurance company or medical board asks why you're doing it, all the scientific validation studies are there. And honestly I've been to the medical boards many times asking questions. I've walked away every time the way doing these studies, but these studies are available that doctors should not have to worry about their medical license the way they did years ago. Now, unfortunately, there's dysfunctional politics that do exist in the United States. But I worked for HHS for a couple of years. I've worked for the New York State Department of Health on their tick borne disease working group. And I do think the politics is getting better.
But yeah, I mean, I think the randomized trial is ultimately that's the gold standard in medicine and that's what we need basically to solve this problem.
[00:46:56] Speaker B: And one of the concerns I know a lot of people have, you know, because here you're talking about, you know, you got four medications and obviously it's going to impact the gut. You talked about the gut being a, a component of regards to Those, you know, 16 nails in your foot. So how, how should people feel calm to go into this kind of regimen and then know that yes, as the next step we can heal these things and recover.
[00:47:23] Speaker C: So yeah, it's a great question. So one of the way I designed the protocol is people are taking four different probiotics, which is over 500 billion twice a day. I mean, it's over a trillion of these very specific bacteria. So for example, the first one I use is thera lac made by master supplements. There are five bacteria in there that have been shown to exist in the octogenarians of the people that have lived the longest on the planet. Now they put this in a sodium alginate code. So 95% of their 40 to 60 and they now have a super version of like 80 billion or more gets into your lower colon. So it's not just that the probiotics are being destroyed by your stomach acid. They have FDA approval on this 95%. So we use Feralc, we use Saccharomyces boulardii, which has been shown to stop C. Diff diarrhea. So we don't get any antibiotic associated diarrhea. I've not seen a case of C. Diff in years. Right. Whereas there's like a half a million cases in the US because they don't even use it in the hospital, in the nursing homes when they give antibiotics for an upper respiratory infection. It's ridiculous. I use orthobiotic from orthomolecular and I use from zymogen their Probiomax 350 billion that has these like, I think it's 16 or 18 strains that are acid resistant that have all been shown the bifidobacteria and the lactate to have these amazing results on your immune system.
That's what people are taking. Not only during the nine weeks they're on antibiotics, but after they're done with the protocol, they stay on these probiotics to seed. Right. And we've never seen problems from it because you're right. I mean it's been shown even short term antibiotics can destroy your microbiome for a year. People don't realize that you could have an upper respiratory infection. Take a Z Pak if you'd actually destroyed your microbiome for a year, putting you at more risk for certain other diseases.
I don't know how the medical system has not gotten to the point that we're using prebiotics with fiber and probiotics to protect these people. But in any case, we've not seen any long term problems and it's not any. I follow these people for years. I've not seen any other chronic diseases. I mean, look, I would be more worried they're finding Lyme disease in Alzheimer's plaques co localizing an amyloid, which is not to say that Lyme causes amyloid, but as I mentioned earlier, all 16 points on the MSIDS model have been associated with Alzheimer's. So Lyme disease, Bartonella, different fungal infections, viral infections, herpes virus, 1, 2, 7, 8. There's a lot of things that cause Alzheimer's, but we know that spirochetal infections like syphilis was a major form of dementia. And we don't actually know at this point how many people are being diagnosed with early Alzheimer's because 46.5 million people in the United States have been diagnosed with preclinical dementia. Now, how many of those people have a reversible cause through infections like Lyme or Bart or mold toxins? And the rest we don't know because no one's ever done the study. So, I mean, that's where kind of I'm moving. My medical practice is trying now to benefit the millions with these chronic diseases.
And I started a substack called Medical Detective, where every week now I'm posting a blog teaching people about Alzheimer's, teaching people about Babesia, Lyme. So if people don't know about substack, if you just look it up, you can get the app and it's free to sign up. And weekly I just do these blogs, it's called Medical Detective Substack. And you'll get like weekly updates from me on Dapsone, on Babesia. For people who want to, like, get the updates or follow me on Facebook @ Dr. Richard Horowitz. Dr. Richard Horowitz. But I haven't seen long term complications. And honestly, Bartonella, it's been associated with inflammatory breast cancer, and melanoma, it's been associated with cancer. So, yes, you have to be concerned about what antibiotics do to your body, but you also have to be concerned about what these bugs do to your body. And you do not want these chronic infections. I've seen people go for joint replacements after being sick for decades. And the orthopedic surgeons go in there and they go, what was going on in your body with all the inflammation? Like with their hip replacements, their shoulder replacements, their knee, they've got chronic infections that are causing all of these joint replacements from inflammation in the bones. So everything in medicine, everything in life is risk, benefit. I have designed the protocol in such a way you are on literally 80 pills a day. Some of them block inflammation to lower the herxes NAC alpha lipoic acid glutathione blocks a switch in your nucleus called NF kappa B lowers down inflammation, makes it much more tolerable. And glutathione lowers meth hemoglobin at the same point in time while having an antiviral effect. By the way, with NAC stopping microclots, we give people what are called NRF2 activators. Turmeric, curcumin, broccoli seed extract, sulforaphane, glucosinolate, resveratrol. Green tea that lowers inflammation, making it more tolerable. We give them things that block another pathway called Nlrp3inflammasomes. Low dose naltrexone, low dose melatonin. So what we're doing is we're supporting your immune system, we're supporting your inflammatory pathways to block them and make it more tolerable. We're supporting your gut. I'm giving you massive doses of folic acid to stop dapsone induced anemia. I'm talking 200 milligrams of leucovorin and 120 milligrams of L methylfolate to prevent the anemia from dapsone from getting worse. The reason I'm giving so much. If you had rheumatoid arthritis and you took methotrexate and you took a methotrexate overdose, what do they give you for methotrexate overdose? Massive doses of folic acid. So that is exactly what I'm doing here with dapsone while using methylene blue and vitamin C, vitamin E, nadh, glutathione, and even cimetidine to lower methemoglobin. So the worst side effects of dapsone, anemia and methemoglobin, as well as the herxes, they're all controlled by what I put in this protocol. So I carefully designed the protocol so every side effect of the protocol, every side effect of the drug regimen would be addressed in a way that made it the safest, most effective protocol. And look, this was not overnight. This took me eight to nine years of constantly tweaking this protocol, upping the dose of dapsone, upping how many days you take. High dose. It took me years to figure out what I'll call the, you know, the master formula that I'm using now. And look what I hope will happen after this randomized trial.
Maybe people will figure out even an even shorter way of doing it. Maybe you just need two week pulses and you don't even need the first nine week oral protocol with dapsone. But until we have, you know, randomized trials, look, if. If I were to get in at HHS at the top level in this coming administration, and I'm. I'm open to working with whoever wants to work with me, they all know this. I'll show you where to put the money. I know exactly the studies that need to be done, we can solve this during the next administration if we're willing to be able to fund the studies that are needed. But I, you know, I'm hoping things are going to go, I'm hoping will actually be a silver lining, is that when the next couple of years you will see changes where we will finally have an answer, because I expect to get these NIH grants done. And, and by the way, if I don't get all the money I need, I'll go to the Lyme community and go, listen, guys, I'm getting old.
You can't expect me to doc forever. We need the monies to get these protocols right so they know I'm out there doing my best, and I'll try and get the monies before I go to the Lyme groups to get it funded.
[00:54:54] Speaker B: Can you imagine, I mean, obviously, the amount of money that we're spending on chronic disease? I mean, can you imagine bringing this out as a viable solution to all these different chronic diseases that, that we're dealing with, the impact it's going to have on America's finances as a whole?
[00:55:13] Speaker C: Well, you know, the paradigm shift that's needed with chronic diseases, again, we were saying earlier we don't have, like, a model for chronic disease. The model we're using is name the disease, throw a drug at it, but you're not getting to the root causes of why the disease is there. So If Alzheimer's has 16 factors, and I've spoken to Dale Bredesen about this because he's now doing studies on it. You know, they did a dapsone study in Korea several years ago where they looked at 15 years worth of leprosy patients who took dapsone. Their Alzheimer rates were like this. The ones who didn't take dapsone, the Alzheimer's were like, much, much higher. Because dapsone stops inflammation in the brain.
They did a randomized controlled placebo study in over 200 patients. They showed that dapsone was excellent for Alzheimer's. Now, was it because it was hitting Lyme in the brain or because it was lowering inflammation from another source? Nobody knows. But the point being, you name the disease and I will tell you that you're going to find these 16 points underlying. And that's what I'm hoping. My new book from Simon and Schuster, that, I mean, I'm hoping it'll be out by early 2026. Right now, we're calling it why We Stay Sick, but knowing the publisher, it'll change a million times by the time I get to the publication date, it's for me is going to probably be the most important book I've ever written because it's not just going to be about Lyme. It's going to be about those who suffer with asthma and allergies and autism and Alzheimer's to say, hey, there may be a better mousetrap. Take a look at what science says is underlying these diseases. And now this is a way, maybe going forward that we could actually improve the prognosis from many of these chronic diseases so we don't have to spend so much money on pharmaceuticals. And don't get me wrong, Big Pharma, it's life saving drugs that are out there. There's nothing wrong with them, but you have to know when to use them, right? I mean, they're costing Americans trillions and trillions of dollars. But we do need better diets, we need better exercise. And my solution is you got to create chronic disease centers of prevention. You got to stop these diseases from starting early. Give people a tax break, you know, if they lower their hemoglobin A1c with diabetes or metabolic syndrome and get their weight down and exercise and lower their cholesterol and stop smoking, give them a tax break every year so that you're, you're taking money, you're giving money back in their pocket and we're not seeing the chronic diseases later in life. So do a chronic disease center of excellence for the long term diseases and do chronic prevention centers of excellence do it on both sides. And guess what? Get big Pharma to fund boast so this way they can make money not just on the chronic disease side, giving money for the people with the drugs. Let them make money on prevention. That's the best way for big Pharma to still make money and for everybody to benefit from this, but doing it on the prevention side instead of the chronic disease side.
[00:58:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's not, it's not, you know, one versus the other, you know, the holistic versus pharma. It is how can we bring the best of both worlds and then optimize the solution. To me, that makes the most sense because you don't want to throw away the baby with the bathwater. There's a lot of great tools that they apply. I mean, this is exciting. I mean, it sounds like there's a lot of exciting things in the future that people can really look forward to and have a hope for.
[00:58:33] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, it's really always the main message. I'm letting people now, because I have very little filter between my brain and my mouth, I can only speak truth as it is. It's like people really can have true hope. It's hope based on solid science and results that we're seeing.
And I do expect we're going to see some major shifts in the next couple of years where all these doctors, in fact, I won't say who it is, but there's a recent doctor from the NIH that just published a study about 10 days ago about why are these people sick with chronic Lyme. Right. And I contacted her privately and I said, listen, I'm designing an NIH placebo controlled multicenter study. Would you like to be part of it? Because I already know the answers and I'm going to prove it to everyone. Would you like to be part of the trial? I never heard back, but I am reaching out to the other side. I reached out to Stony Brook to see if they wanted to be part of the trial. They were not interested in doing it. So so far we've got Mount Sinai associated with the Cohen foundation, and I've got the Amen clinics at this point that are interested. But I need at least a third university site that I'm looking for. But I'm sure we're going to find it shortly. And once we get all the pieces in place, well, hopefully by the end of 2025, we'll get the study going.
[00:59:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that'd be beautiful. Well, Dr. Horowitz, this is amazing. And thank you for what you are bringing to the world. And I mean that you're bringing so much hope to so many people. And I mean, I've had the benefit of interviewing a lot of your patients and that. That sing your praises and are now having a full life, you know, based upon your efforts. And so. So thank you for, for all of that.
[01:00:10] Speaker C: No, it's my pleasure. And you know, again, just going back to the teachings we were talking about earlier, you know, one of the things I also learned from my spiritual teachers is when you plant seeds in the ground with proper motivation, you never know what's going to grow years later. And one of the things they taught me is, and I did this actually before I started medicine, I actually made the aspiration, may I be of greatest benefit to the greatest number of people and bring health and bring joy. And I would planting these seeds like a farmer would in the ground with these aspiration prayers, may I be of greatest benefit. And I look back at my clinical career, it's been 40 years now. I've been in clinical medicine. I look back and I kind of wonder whether those seeds that were planted a long time ago, whether actually that's the reason why they're coming to fruition at this point. It was just proper motivation and just wanting to help people. And Gendarme Rinpoche's, you know, old statement of, you know, love people, wanting them to be happy and having compassion, wanting them to be free from suffering. It's like it's the basics of all religious doctrine. It's the basics of what they teach. And it works in medicine.
It just works is all I can say. You know, I'm a scientist enough that I put this stuff into practice to see, like, does it really work? And I can tell you, looking back at my clinical career, it's like, I've been blessed. They gave me some great advice that does seem like it helped people. So I am very grateful.
[01:01:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. When your heart is centered with truth and things flourish. And you truly are doing that. So bless you. Thank you so much.
[01:01:44] Speaker C: Thank you, Michael. It was a great pleasure being with you today.
[01:01:54] Speaker A: The Information this podcast is for educational purposes only and it's not designed to diagnose or treat any disease. I hope this podcast impacted you as it did me. Please subscribe so that you can be notified when new episodes are released. There are some excellent shows coming coming up that you do not want to miss. If you're enjoying these podcasts, please take a moment to write a review. And please don't keep this information to yourself. Share them with your family and friends. You never know what piece of information that will transform their lives. For past episodes and powerful information on how to conquer lyme, go to integrativelimesolutions.com and an additional powerful resource, limestream, for Lyme support and group discussions. Join Lyme Conquerors Mentoring Lyme warriors on Facebook. If you'd like to know more about the cutting edge integrative of Lyme therapies MyCenter offers, please visit thecarlfeldcenter.com thank you for spending this time with us and I hope to see you at our next episode of Integrative lyme Solutions with Dr. Karlfeld.
