Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to Integrative lyme Solutions with Dr. Karl Feldt. I am so excited about the show that we have ahead of us. We have some phenomenal information that could save lives.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: You're gonna need to tune in to.
[00:00:15] Speaker A: What'S going on today. The information is jam packed, so don't step away.
Well, I have the absolute pleasure of.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Having Dr. Christina McMullen with me today.
She's a naturopathic doct doctor, wellness coach, and a lot of years background in alternative medicine. And, and so Dr. McMullen, thank you so much for spending some time with me.
[00:00:43] Speaker C: Thank you for having me. It's. I'm super excited to have this conversation.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Well, so it, it's always a question.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Question.
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Why, why does someone focus on line pans? Pandas, you know, obviously they're not the easiest thing to, to address. Some.
I'm curious why, why did you go in that direction?
[00:01:05] Speaker C: Right. And I feel like my story is very different from most people because most of the stories out there you hear, people have personal experience with Lyme that has gone undetected or unsolved for years and then they finally kind of figure it out themselves. And then if they're health professionals, then that's what they dedicate their life to.
Or same thing with panas and pans. They had a child that suddenly developed these bizarre out of the blue symptoms and then their research just brings them to those diagnoses. I, on the other hand, stumbled into Lyme looking for a job. I was fresh out of high school and already knew I was introduced to holistic health care when I was in high school and I was hooked up completely and knew that is exactly what I wanted to do. I really wanted to help people, but really help find that why and not just put band aids over everything.
So looking for a job, I ended up stumbling upon Longevity Health center, which is the practice that I actually, 20 years later I'm still working at.
And the founder and naturopath that had worked there and started the practice, Dr. Seneca Anderson, has already was already treating people with Lyme for 10 +20 years already at that point. So I just kind of stumbled upon it naturally, finding a place to work and study under and learn from an amazing practitioner who really was doing what we do already. And so that was my first exposure to the Lyme world. And then I do really feel like the pandas and pans was just a natural progression because as we can talk throughout this whole conversation, there's a lot of overlap. A lot of kids who have an Underlying borrelia and other co infection tick borne illnesses eventually get a PANDAS or pans diagnosis. So it kind of just trickled into that and that's where I ended up really diving deep because at the time that I was really starting to see these kids with these conditions at longevity, I was also finishing up my formal education and was also becoming a mom. I had had, I think definitely one, if not pregnant with my second kid at that point. And I just wanted to know more personally and professionally. So that's when I dug deep into the pandas and pans world, studied it, followed all of the amazing functional pediatricians out there that have been doing this for, for most of their professional practice and then wrote my dissertation on it. And that just kind of has progressed to what I do every day with kids.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: I love it. So do you mind just kind of sharing, you said, you know, they kind of interlay, overlap, intertwined. Do you mind sharing kind of how Lyme disease pans, Pandas, you know, what are the distinctions? Are there distinctions? Is it, you know, so people can understand the different categories?
[00:04:19] Speaker C: Sure. So pandas and pans is actually a relatively new and really still pretty controversial diagnosis, I would say. Kind of like chronic Lyme is still.
So pandas and pans really wasn't discovered until the late 90s, early 2000s. Dr. Susan Swedo was a mental health scientist who was studying OCD behaviors and actually it was the mom's intuition who happened to, I believe was a nurse, noticed that her daughter had tested positive for strep and then shortly after that developed these sudden OCD fears and brought it to their attention while they were studying these behaviors and discovered that the strep was really a trigger to an autoimmune condition.
And so PANDAS stands for Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric disorder associated with Stress Streptococcal infections. Whereas pans is kind of the umbrella above pandas, which stands for pediatric Auto onset Neuropsychiatric syndrome.
Now before those two names were even coined, the first potential name for our acronym for all of these conditions was pitans. Pediatric infection triggered autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorder.
So these infections, you know, pandas being strep, but then what they discovered many, many more bacterias and viruses and then eventually even environmental triggers like molds and heavy metals could trigger an immune response in the body to where our immune cells or the immune cells in these children was affecting and targeting what's called the basal ganglia in the brain. So the area of the brain that really controls speech, motor movement, behavior, you name it, all sorts of different kind of behavioral, physical conditions.
So initially, I don't think Lyme was or Borrelia and co infections was one of the first things that they've studied. But definitely over the years, as more obviously, if it's a controversial diagnosis, you kind of have to go into the functional world to get the help you need right now. And so as a lot of functional pediatricians and practitioners were seeing these children and running different decent blood work tests, they were finding these Borrelias, the three Bs, the Borrelias, the bartonella, the babesias, a few other co infections, anaplasmas, Ehrlichias, and, you know, really seeing that by dealing with those Lyme and other co infections that the pans and Pandas symptoms could really be alleviated.
And, you know, the crossover with the symptoms is definitely a whole lot of that neurological Lyme anxiety, fears, ocds.
And then we do see a lot of musculoskeletal things as well. A lot of like leg aches and pains and things like that. But that's kind of the discovery and seeing how that tied in. And I feel like for me, that was a big part of. I was kind of feeling like I was essentially seeing kids with pandas and pans before they were even being diagnosed with it, because it was a mother or a father who had dealt with Lyme and had, you know, we had treated them and they were feeling amazing, and then they noticed some things in their kids or it was, well, I was pregnant with him or her when I feel like I contracted these bacteria. So could I have passed that down to them?
So yeah.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: And so, I mean, you mentioned some kind of symptoms that, that people understand that potentially I'm, I'm battling pants pandas. I mean, when should a mother start to kind of think in that direction? I mean, what, what are some of the telltale signs, you know, and, and when they find that out, what should they test for to identify that?
[00:08:43] Speaker C: So really, one of the biggest, you know, highlights or things that it's focused for getting a diagnosis for pandas and pans because it's really, it's a clinical diagnosis. There's not one test that can be run, really, that says, yes, this is pans or yes, this is pandas. It's a series of symptoms that they present. And for both sides, it really is a rapid onset of symptoms.
This, you know, your kid goes to bed fine, and they wake up the next morning and they're suddenly terrified to go to school, or they can't leave mommy or daddy, lots of separation anxiety, or you'll see these movements or tics that they don't. They're not doing on their own. You know, they're uncontrollable, blinking, you know, screaming, your face, some kind of shrugging of the shoulders and things like that. Just really odd sudden behaviors.
Some of them can sadly be very severe and almost seem like a psychosis state where I've had plenty of parents that, you know, my kid went to bed fine and they woke up and it was like a demon possessed them.
So any type of really sudden, drastic change in behavior and body movements and even if their school age math suddenly decreases and their handwriting is night and day different, their drawings look like a totally different person. Did those drawings just very sudden rapid changes is the classic picture and the classic model of that.
I do feel like there is in some cases a bit of kind of a wax in waiting where you might say, oh, that's. That's not typical of my child. Or that's. That's a little different. But maybe you can shrug it off of we didn't get a really great night's sleep last night or it's the holidays, maybe they had too much sugar, like little things here and there. But eventually, if those don't get looked at immediately, which most of us will shrug those off, there is like a sudden drop and it's like, oh goodness, what happened to my child?
So that's really the telltale. Like if something drastically changed very quickly in their behaviors and their education, you know, their learning abilities, sleep patterns, body movements, eating, eating, eating patterns. There's a lot of almost anorexia fears in certain kids as well.
But that root, that root word is just sudden change. That sudden change should put red flags out there.
[00:11:31] Speaker B: And is there a difference between pandas and then pans? But you, I mean, you said that pans is kind of like an overarching umbrella that pandas is and is part of, because it's kind of an over. It's a wider spectrum of. Of disorders.
So is. Is there time we know that this would be more pandas versus pans? Or symptomatically it looks the same.
[00:11:58] Speaker C: So there's a few different subtle, subtle things. I do feel like pan does is which is the strep infection. So that's the main, the main difference. They're both autoimmune conditions. They both target that basal ganglia in the brain. So all sorts of different behaviors can be target affected.
So the pandas is when it's triggered by a recent strep infection, if you connect those, can connect those dots there, which I feel like in those cases, pandas is probably starting to become a little bit more welcomed and acknowledged than Pans is.
So I think those kids, if it's like this child had strep, they tested positive with the strep culture, they did antibiotics, they got better. But then within a few weeks to a month or two, we have these sudden, drastic changes. It's a little easier, I feel, to connect the dots.
So I feel like those kids a lot of times don't get quite as severe symptoms because I do feel like we're starting to get the treatment for them earlier.
Whereas pans, it's kind of caused by anything else type picture. So you have to really rule out all of the other issues first. I do feel like the restrictive eating tends to follow more pans kids than Pandas kids.
But there is still a lot of overlap in all of that. And that's where I think it's tricky with pans too, is it's such a diagnoses of exclusion and not looking for something. Like with pandas, looking for a strep infection leading up to that, that it can take so much longer. And so then all the brain inflammation and all the effects of the dysfunctioning immune system can make things wreak havoc even more.
[00:13:56] Speaker B: So if. If you do have symptoms and somebody's expecting pandas, does strep always show up? I mean, can it be times where it may not show up in a tighter or. But it, it's still, you know, it's very suspicious that this is what it is.
[00:14:16] Speaker C: Right. So there's two auto antibodies and blood work that is kind of the two standards looking for strep in the blood. Because you can do a culture of the throat, a swab and even have it cultured sent out and that might not show positive because strep doesn't have to always be in the throat. It can be in the abdomen, it can be on the skin.
So the blood work will look for ASO and anti DNase B antibodies. But Right. Being an autoimmune condition, if the immune system's not building that proper immune response towards those bacteria, they're not going to produce those antibodies.
[00:14:54] Speaker B: No.
[00:14:54] Speaker C: And they've actually discovered that strep bacteria can also create biofilms like Lyme can. So if they're hiding out in that biofilm or a part of that biofilm matrix, that most likely has a whole bunch of other pathogens in there as well.
Again, the immune system's not going to necessarily elicit that immune response.
With kids, sometimes you can do a little anal exam because if there is strep, you can have a little red ring around the anus. And so if some of those tests don't show up positive, that can be just a visual cue for certain strep. But a lot of times if it's just, I say if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, especially in the herbal world, where we're not throwing like tons of really harmful antibiotics at something, treat it like a duck and see what happens. And if they improve, then, you know, you're on the right track.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: And let's go, I mean, into the category then of pans. I mean, how do you proceed to identify? I mean, is it just symptoms like you're saying if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it's a duck?
Or are there other kind of step by step processes that you take in order to be able to identify what's triggering the pans?
[00:16:16] Speaker C: So there are. I mean, you could run. And a lot of functional practitioners will run a ton of blood work to see, you know, do we have line titers or western blots, or do we have mycoplasma bacteria or other things. But a. It's a lot of blood work which kids don't love. Nobody likes to be poked and prodded, and kids especially.
And it can get really expensive for family members as well.
So there, there are some pretty classic symptoms for certain. Even, you know, in the Lyme world too, like, Borrelia can present with a lot of aches and pains and brain fog. And with kids, that can spill over into like add, adhd, potentially even like odd oppositional defiant disorder type symptoms, a lot of leg pain. If someone comes into my office and says their child was just diagnosed with juvenile idiopathic arthritis, I'm automatically, almost automatically, wondering if there's an underlying Lyme infection going on.
BCF can really trigger night sweats and a lot of big tummy aches. But that bartonella in particular, I mean, bartonella rage is real. And it's very real. Real with kids, too. And I think that's where a lot of the rage and the anger and frustration and like, my kid is possessed by a demon. Like I said, like the clawing, the scratching, and then they don't even remember doing it. And then like, they're really apologetic afterwards. Like, if those are the stor that I'm hearing when someone's in my office, I'm automatically thinking there's a bartonella infection, most likely. And if we're at the point of this, like, rage state and we don't even remember what's happening, then we're probably in that pans space as well with an autoimmune condition.
But what I love so much about what I do is I use bioenergetic testing personally to test all of my patients, and it's energetically tapping into the body's meridian pathways and seeing if the energetic makeup of those pathogens or environmental toxins is having a negative impact on the body. So the kids are a little hesitant at first, but it's just a little bracelet that they wear that does a dermal scan. So it doesn't hurt, it's painless, it's relatively quick.
And by energetically isolating the underlying pathogens, I feel like we can get a lot, much more accurate, more reliable source than certain blood work that's relying on how the body's immune system is building an attack against those pathogens.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: Talk to me a little bit by bioenergetic testing. What does that mean? Is it because you have things like applied kinesiology, muscle testing, you have devices where you can measure the meridians and heart rate variability devices, you know, what, what is it that. That you use that you. You feel is helping you a lot in this process?
[00:19:24] Speaker C: So I first started out with applied kinesiology and muscle testing. And the devices, the bioenergetic scans are elect. Well, they're the dermal scans that we use, but they're all based off of a German physician who is using dermal or EAV electroacupuncture, according to Vol, which his name was Vol.
And he discovered that these meridian pathways give off a certain energy, essentially, and something can either make it infl. Overly excited or lessen it. And so over the years, just the technology has improved and gone farther.
So the scans that we use at Longevity aren't the single point testing that were the original ones, but they're using. Mine is called the Qi 5, and it uses eight points of connection on someone's wrist to expose the body's meridian pathways to a whole host of different pathogens frequencies, and then get a feedback response to see if that is in fact essentially lowering the chi or that life force of our bodies.
And then that's how it just formulates a report and pulls up the things that have the highest response to the bot from the body versus what's really not an issue.
And then we can go from there and see what we can do to help eliminate those. Those stressors.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: So are, are you able then with that device to kind of see priorities, you know, which are the. Because a lot of times we have frequency of a bunch of different pathogens, but there may not be ones as part of the picture really.
So this will then identify priorities and will it also feed back then frequencies to help to correct it will.
[00:21:20] Speaker C: It will do a priority of like this was the top one, you know, go down a list and then I create. It can scan and create a homeopathic remedy with the specific frequencies that are going to have the best balancing impact on the body, while also testing compatibility with different herbal products to see if there's one herbal supplement or blend that is going to be more targeting in that person's body.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: And, and what kind of effects do you see? You know, because that, that's always the question, you know, if I take this medication, I know that, you know, like that's powerful or these herbs, you know, they maybe not be as powerful, but still it's a fiscal thing. And then here you're doing frequency, you know, what do you see impact wise on people utilizing frequency medicine like this?
[00:22:20] Speaker C: I personally feel like it is one of the biggest things that has a positive impact on how the body's own immune system shifts into proper heal and repair mode.
Because homeopathic, they are frequency remedies. So there's no physical substance to them. They're just extreme dilutions of an actual substance.
So when you ingest them or you know, take them orally or rub them on your skin or those are probably the two most common ways to take them.
They're not actually having their own biochemical impact on the body. But I tell people, think of it like a message to your own immune system that says, hey, this frequency, see right here, this thing that's in our bodies, it really shouldn't be there anymore. So we need to do our job to help eliminate that and clear that out. So I think compare pairing that in conjunction with different herbal supplements, you just kind of get this beautiful perfect effect.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: Hello, dear listeners, this is Dr. Michael Karlfeld, your host of integrative Lyme solutions. Today I'm excited to share an exclusive opportunity from the Karfel center where we blend healing power of nature with groundbreaking therapies to combat Lyme disease and its associated challenges. At the Karlfeld center, we're not just fighting Lyme, we're revolutionizing the way it's Treated with cutting edge therapies like photodynamic therapy, full body ozone IV therapy, silver IVs, brain rebalancing, autonomic response testing, laser energetic detoxification, and more. We aim to eradicate Lyme. Our approach is comprehensive, supporting your body's immune system, detoxification processes, hormonal balance and mitochondrial health. Ensuring a holistic path to recovery. Understanding Lyme disease and its impact is complex, which is why we're offering a free 15 minute discovery call with one of our Lyme literate naturopathic doctors. This call is your first step towards understanding how we can personalize your healing journey, focusing on you as a whole person, not just your symptoms. Our team, led by myself, Dr. Michael Karls, is here to guide you through your recovery with the most advanced diagnostic tools, individualized treatment plans, and supportive therapies designed to restore your health and and vitality. Whether you're facing Lyme disease head on or seeking preventative strategies, we're committed to your wellness. Take the first step towards reclaiming your health. Visit us at thecarlefullthcenter.com or call us at 208-338-8902 to schedule your free discovery call at the Karlfield Center. We believe in healing naturally, effectively and holistically. Thank you for tuning in into integrative lyme solution with Dr. Karlfeld. Remember, true health is not just the absence of disease. It's achieving the abundance of vitality. Let's discover yours together and you have.
[00:25:23] Speaker B: A kind of a few stories, just as an example. So people can kind of understand the impact of being in both bioenergetics and also herbal medicine, how they pair well together and the impact they can have.
[00:25:40] Speaker C: Yeah. So one of the other amazing things about the bioenergetic testing is you don't need someone to physically be there in person for the testing. You only need a sample of their DNA to add it to the whole circuit of the program that's running.
So especially with my Pandas and Pans kids, I have a handful of them that have such anxiety about leaving their house, they won't even come into the office.
So parents can bring or even send in a sample.
Typically we do like a hair clipping or swab their cheeks to get some saliva and we can actually run the scans that we run with that.
And so it helps start the process because then they can even go home with just a remedy. And then eventually we see these kids trickle in.
And then the herbals are great to add on in conjunction because herbs, it's not like one herb just does one thing. And so we can keep it pretty simple for kids especially and target inflammation, target immune response, target the bacteria or whatever pathogen load that they're working, dealing with and keep it as concise and as little, as overwhelming as possible for the parents and the kids.
And like I said, one of the girls that always stands out in my mind when I think of success, success stories was a girl that did not come into the office for her first appointment.
Her mom came in with her sample and we got a bunch of things kind of put together for her and she started them as soon as she got home.
[00:27:25] Speaker A: And.
[00:27:27] Speaker C: 6, 6, 6 ish weeks later, she came into the office and I mean, she's been coming for quite a while. I don't get to see her as often anymore, but I take that as a good sign.
She went to sleepaway camp this past summer. So she went from being so in her head and full of anxiety from these pathogens to where she wouldn't even leave her bedroom to.
She's living the life that a kid should live. Going to camp over the summer, making new friends, being away from home for a week and loving it.
And you know, it takes a little bit of time, but I mean, what's one or two years out of your childhood as opposed to not having a childhood?
[00:28:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And that, that's huge. I'm able to catch it early. And children had. They have phenomenal ability to heal.
[00:28:23] Speaker C: They are so resilient.
[00:28:24] Speaker B: They are, yeah.
So that, that's phenomenal. I mean, too. I mean, the ripple effect that has on the family and then obviously that child, you know, when, when they become parents, I mean, it's. It's incredible when you can hit them and address it early, you know, for children.
And so, so with this, I mean, they can be in another city and they can email you, you know, DNA from like a cheek swab or what, whatever it is that you do.
[00:28:56] Speaker C: Yeah, we can do virtual stuff for sure.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: And so with this technology, I mean, something that, that people always are nervous about are, you know, the mast cell activation and, and kind of excessive immune system response. I would assume working with Bayern Energetics, you're able to bypass a lot of that.
[00:29:20] Speaker C: I can, yes. And it actually even looks at mast cell hyperactivity, vagus nerve support, or seeing if the vagus nerve. So it's not just. It also can look at how the organs and systems in the body are functioning. Because over the years we've learned that healthy and organ organs and tissues tend to resonate at a given frequency level. So by comparing that to what the body is outputting, we can see if we're in a state of, you know, mast cell activation, if our interleukins are overreacting, our T cells are dysregulated, if our vagus nerve needs some, some stimulation based off of what the frequency of those parts of our body and our immune system are outputting compared to what it really should be at the same time.
[00:30:10] Speaker B: And then obviously, like you mentioned, if the tissues that high frequency resonate with the way the healthy tissue should resonate, then the likelihood for a pathogen to settle there is not very big.
[00:30:24] Speaker C: Oh yeah.
[00:30:26] Speaker B: And so one of the things also, so we've been talking about pans and pandas, but you also have adult versions of all of this. Right?
[00:30:36] Speaker C: So not diagnosable because the diagnosable criteria has to. Well, it says it has to be an onset between 3 and 12.
So I think just because it's such a newer diagnosable disease, like it didn't get diagnosable criteria until, I believe, 2012.
So it's still relatively new. Obviously, a lot of kids have gone through the crack, They've been slipped through the cracks.
You know, there's a big talk about kids being more susceptible because their blood brain barrier isn't fully intact quite yet. And so then the likelihood of something like this happening after that mild developmental milestone where that blood brain barrier is supposed to be fully sealed, you lose that diagnosable criteria and everything.
But I mean, without a doubt, there's hundreds of people. If not, you know, there's many, many people walking around that probably, yeah, their underlying anxieties and their fears and their phobias and, you know, who knows, Schizophrenia type behaviors are probably rooted in some of this. It just went undetected because the knowledge wasn't there, the, you know, awareness wasn't there. And they just got slapped on different medications to handle this, manage the symptoms, and they haven't gone to find that true. Why?
[00:32:07] Speaker B: And with pans, I mean, what are some of the kind of common infectious agents and common issues that you feel needs to be dealt with? I mean, you have to work a lot on their genetics, their detox pathways, their gut.
There are certain pathogens that are more of an issue, like, you know, mold parasites, along with maybe tick borne illness. I mean, what, what are kind of a, a good general picture that you tend to see.
[00:32:39] Speaker C: So it really is always that perfect storm with everybody. You know, it might be a little different here and there, but there's even With Pandas, I will say it's never just strep. There's never just one infection that gets the immune system in a state of chaos to where it's attacking our own healthy cells.
I would say very large chunk, if not all of the kids that go into these pandas and pan states have methylation issues and they're not detoxing properly a thousand percent.
So you want to address that and make sure we're opening, you know, we're decongesting that highway of the detox pathways.
Gut health for sure.
I mean, leaky blood, leaky gut is essentially the same thing as a leaky blood brain barrier. So you kind of naturally address that when you're addressing the blood brain barrier factor to Pandas and pans anyways. But the same things that are going to cause that blood brain barrier to be leaky are essentially what caused that gut to be permeable as well. So always looking at gut health, always making sure the detox pathways are open and then outside of the strep for Pandas, Candida, different parasites, definitely with pans, like I said, Bartonella is really that main co infection that I see a lot of.
But obviously all the other ones, Borrelia and the other CO infections, Babesia, anaplasmas, Ehrlichias, mold, I find, I mean, just even with Lyme patient mold really exacerbates Lyme. So if we're in a molding environment, it just wreaks havoc and makes everything so much harder for the immune system and for people.
Mycoplasma bacteria are very, very common for pans.
Kids with pans as well, they typically test pretty high for mycoplasma bacteria.
We're seeing more and more Epstein Barr, but again, that's a pretty common thing as well.
Different herpes, viruses, even sometimes the flu. And obviously since, since COVID Covid has been a huge one these days, even in reactivating some symptoms for kids that we've gotten a good, in a good spot. So just a whole bunch of them. But I would say outside of the, the Lyme mycoplasma and then Covid are probably some of the, the bigger ones these days.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: And I'm curious to see what, how have you seen things change with COVID being on, on the scene, both, you know, vaccine and also as an infection.
[00:35:30] Speaker C: So I find a lot. I see, I tend to see a lot more cardiovascular symptoms actually in kids after they've either been vaccinated, which thankfully I haven't come across many kids in my practice in my office that were given the COVID vaccine, they may have gotten the childhood schedule vaccines, but they not very many were vaccinated for Covid.
But even just getting Covid I find a lot more cardiovascular and all like POTS type symptoms tend to creep in and then maybe a little bit more of the Ehlers Danlos type symptoms with, you know, limb mobility and things like that has been a shift pre Covid to post Covid for me and what I've been seeing.
[00:36:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean. And are you having to kind of address it a little bit differently than what you're used to because of COVID being part of the scene?
[00:36:29] Speaker C: Yes and no.
A lot of the protocols that we use for and have used and I have used for even just straight pediatric Lyme and then even Pandas and Pans cases, we really focus on breaking down biofilm. So proteolytic enzymes have always been a big part of our protocol.
So maybe shifting more to a proteolytic enzyme that has nattokinase in it as opposed to just a protease or serrapeptase was maybe a subtle shift to kind of address more of the breaking down of the spike proteins, potentially adding different things to help increase blood circulation to really alleviate some of those POTS type symptoms. So nitric oxide is something that are just implementing dietary changes like beets and arugula and things like that that will help increase nitric oxide levels in the body.
Has been a little subtle change, but at the end of the day, if you still address the underlying pathogen, work on the immune system response and decrease the inflammation, you're getting to that. Why?
Regardless of what it, what it's doing and what's causing.
[00:37:49] Speaker B: Yeah, and, and when you go after, you know, using then herbals, I mean, are there certain ones that you think if I, if I don't have these three supplements, I would feel really handicapped in my practice.
[00:38:07] Speaker C: So for kids in particular, obviously I tend to do a lot with a lot more with liquids than capsules.
Biocidin has, hands down been a favorite of mine for a very, very long time.
The liposomal form in particular. If we're dealing with more systemic infections like Borrelia and Bartonella as opposed to just GI related symptoms, that helped quite a bit. More recently I've been enjoying a lot of the Nutrimedics line of products.
I will say the skullcap in particular is one that I use very, very, very regularly. And it's because it's multi, it has multi purposes. You know, the biggest thing you want to do with These kids initially for symptom relief is bring down inflammation. So skull cap, Chinese skull cap is an amazing anti inflammatory but also has an effect on the T1 and T2 T cells and the regulatory cells. So it's helping to balance that immune response at the same time.
And it actually has a little bit of antimicrobial benefit to it as well. So I always like to add skull cap. It really hasn't ever shown any negative side effects from even going pretty heavy initially just because it's so great at the anti inflammatory support.
And then let's see. I mean just go. Always wanting to support the gut because if you can get that. So even if it's just starting with the good probiotic or the IgGs, the immunoglobulin powders initially just so that we can start working on healing the gut, but kind of soap up and sop up, I say like a sponge, some of those waste products that these harmful pathogens are going to produce, these lipopolysaccharides once they're being killed off.
Because I don't want someone to feel worse initially and have really bad tummy aches and say I couldn't tolerate those products like they couldn't. They made them feel worse. Because if they don't feel good when they take certain things, they're just not going to take them and they're not going to get the relief or we're not going to make progress.
[00:40:20] Speaker B: No, exactly. At the end of the day, you know, the best, best supplement is the one that they can actually take, you know.
Yeah.
[00:40:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:32] Speaker B: Great. And for. Do you utilize a lot of binders and for kiddos as well, not your.
[00:40:40] Speaker C: Typical binders like think charcoal or zeolite or things like that. Just because sadly so many kids are already so constipated. I don't want to make that worse if they don't mind the taste of a sour product or where we can mix things into liquid and they are willing to drink a bigger amount of something.
I really, really like adding the modified citrus pectin.
Again it can help bind to things. It helps with decreasing galectin 3 levels in the body, which is anti inflammatory and biofilm breaking.
For more stubborn Lyme cases, I like to add stevia in towards the end to help break down some biofilm, but then also attack and target those round bodies that those Lyme bacteria can ball up into and be more resistant to the other herbs that we're trying to use to kill them off.
[00:41:43] Speaker B: Mm.
[00:41:45] Speaker C: And really different fibers, you know, Jerusalem Artichoke or just different fibers from foods. Psyllium husk.
Making sure that the bile ducts and our bioflow is happening efficiently can sometimes be really the only thing we need to just open up our body's own binding pathways, which is the bile binding to things and eliminating them through our stool.
[00:42:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that.
Is there anything that you feel is important for, you know, people out there that are wondering whether the child's dealing with pants pandas that you feel is important for them to know?
[00:42:31] Speaker C: I think the biggest thing for parents when their child is suddenly changed or has these drastic behavioral changes is, you know, listen to your mama gut or your, your papa gut. Like, don't, don't let it be swept under the rug. Don't tell somebody it will pass that you're crazy.
You know, find somebody that is aware and believes in these diagnoses and they can help you and just know there is hope.
You know, I think so many parents, it's terrifying to have a child seem like a completely different person. You know, like a light flip just switched and suddenly, oh my gosh, my child's gone. I can't even see that brightness in their eyes that they used to have. Like, like, where did they go? Like, and it's terrifying. But no, there are people out there that can help.
And it's possible. Like I said, there's kids that. This girl that went from cooped up in her house to sleep away camp.
There's been stories of kids who were probably going to be put into special needs class with multiple IEPs.
They're in the gifted program now. They're, you know, there's. There's hope and there's possibilities and these kids don't have to live in fear. And you don't have to feel like your rest of your life is going to be walking on eggshells wondering when the next ball is going to drop, you know, what's, what's going to cause the next. What they call in the pandas and pans world flare. Like, what, what's the next thing that's going to exacerbate symptoms. Like, you can get to the root cause. We can, we can correct these things. We can reestablish that immune tolerance. And the word that I've heard over and over again that I just love is resiliency. Like, we can get these kids resilient again. So that next cold and flu season when they're at school, if somebody in class gets strep or gets Covid or gets the flu and they're exposed to it, their bodies are going to respond like they're supposed to respond, and they're not going to go haywire and they're not going to get into this autoimmune fight or flight state anymore.
So just knowing that it's going to be a little bit of a bumpy road like any chronic illness is, but we can come out of that on the other side stronger and more resilient and more equipped and healthier than ever before.
[00:45:01] Speaker B: That's great. That's great. And that's the thing. I mean, once you start kind of try to manage these symptoms with psychotropic drugs, pharmaceuticals, all of a sudden it's all that undoing that you have to do to get the kids off these medications, because these medications obviously have a huge impact on the child's ability to develop appropriately and try and build relationships and all. I mean, so not having to go there and then addressing the root cause and then shifting, reducing that inflammatory process that takes place in the brain, you know, by removing the drivers, that. That's huge. It's so, so huge for a child. So.
Well, I, I really, really appreciate this time.
Dr. McMullen, thank you so much for, for what you're doing and, and all the children you're helping and, and yeah, we, we need more information and thank you for being that, that voice out there.
[00:46:12] Speaker C: Yeah, thank you so much. This has been fun.
[00:46:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I loved it. Thank you so much.
[00:46:25] Speaker A: The information. This podcast is for educational purposes only, and it's not designed to diagnose or treat any disease. I hope this podcast impacted you as it did me. Please subscribe so that you can be notified when new episodes are released. There are some excellent shows coming up that you do not want to miss. If you're enjoying these podcasts, please take a moment to write a review. And please don't keep this information to yourself. Share them with your family and friends. You never know what piece of information that will transform their lives. For past episodes and powerful information on how to conquer lyme, go to integrativelimesolutions.com and an additional powerful resource, lymestream.com for Lyme support and group discussions. Join Lyme Conquerors Mentoring Lyme warriors on Facebook.
If you'd like to know more about the cutting edge integrative Lyme therapies my center offers, please visit thecarlfeltcenter.com thank you for spending this time with us and I hope to see you at our next episode of Integrative lyme Solutions with Dr. Karl Feld.
